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Hello,

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this is Phoebe Preston and Maggie Lorenz interviewing Doctor Ramsey,

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Dean of Barrett at the West Campus on Friday,

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December 13,

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2018

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at 10:57 a.m. in the West Campus Barrett Suite.

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This interview is part of the Barrett Oral History Project.

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Our goal of this project is to preserve a record

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of Barrett's history in honor of our 30th anniversary.

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Thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with us and share your experience.

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My pleasure.

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So

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I know that you came to ASU at the West Campus in

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1994,

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but how did you get involved with Barrett and what was that process like?

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I became involved with the Honors College immediately and.

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before.

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Because

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there wasn't yet.

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Honors at the West Campus,

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and so we needed a liaison

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to the Tempe Honors College.

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And the person with whom I met biweekly was Michael Cochise Young.

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The late Michael Corchiso.

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So she would come and we would have coffee and talk about the kinds of ways to get

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um honors

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to the West Campus.

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I would visit Tempe.

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Then Dean Humphries.

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To talk about these things.

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And that lasted from 94 to 96,

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and then in '96,

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um

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I became

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an a de facto but unofficial.

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Affiliated faculty of honors

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and I taught a number of honor special topics courses.

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At the request of the person they appointed as the director of honors here,

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who is Joseph.

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And that

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Version of the honors program here.

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I think it was still called a program then

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um took place in Fab on the first floor

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near the College of Mary Lou Fulton.

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Was the College of bad

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Um,

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that's where

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Doctor Ryan.

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Professor in

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Just two little rooms

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in fact.

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How much,

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how much staff was on the Barrett team at that?

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It was a wonderful staff person.

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She helped me order my books and set up this and.

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Is

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Yes.

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Something I'll have to look up.

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So,

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a handful of people involved in.

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It was she.

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OK.

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It was she and,

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Oh,

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OK,

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awesome,

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um,

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so.

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What were some of the challenges with getting

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honors here at West?

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Like what did you have to overcome to get?

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We had to think of a way because it wasn't until 2001 that the West Campus.

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Enrolled its first freshman class.

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We're an upper division campus.

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For a long time,

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but when I came in '94

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until 2001.

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So we had to find a way to make sure that the special topics course and

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honors could be given because you had to take one of those courses as part of your

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graduation requirements,

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and that has since evolved.

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With some help of mine and some other faculty into

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what is now called the history of ideas somehow.

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So that was one of our problems.

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We needed to provide

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something

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like a space for other students.

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We needed to develop special things for graduation so that we could honor them.

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Those were all things that

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were important to.

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And starting all that for the first time.

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That's awesome.

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So.

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When did you really realize that this is where you needed to be,

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like this is the place for you?

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Well,

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I had the great good fortune of,

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I don't,

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of being successful,

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if I could be so bold,

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um,

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as a graduate student,

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as a teacher.

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And my

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word of this got to the Honors College at Purdue and they asked me if I would teach

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honors classes while I was a graduate student.

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a great gift for me

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and it was doing that for a number of years while I was

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earning my PhD

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that allowed me to have the kind of experience that

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when I asked to be appointed as the liaison,

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I was the one who had some background in honors education.

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So that made me very happy and it was.

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From that

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that I realized.

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I was really

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excited about honors and it was giving me

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this other opportunity at my new institution.

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oppress people.

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Be a contributing member of the campus and I thought that was a way to do it,

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because the person who mentored me there,

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Doctor Clayton Lean.

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Was very good,

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I thought,

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and he

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taught me enough about honors that I could use the vocabula.

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Talk intelligently with Doctor Young

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and so that.

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So

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in talking about you being involved in honors and that being a place for you,

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what does it mean to be an honors student?

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Like what do you think it means to be in Barrett?

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From the student perspective.

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You could also start from,

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you were talking about the difference

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between teaching honors and regular classes.

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Well,

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I knew honors was for me because I was here at a campus where I had the kind of training,

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the way most of my colleagues did,

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where

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we thought we were going to teach at

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institutions where we would have tons of PhD

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students and we were going to pursue our writing

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mine in philosophy,

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that I was going to do that with

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graduate students and I didn't have graduate students,

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but I had a really good gig and I had

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honor students around and that's one of the things that's been

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the greatest blessing of honors for me

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is to know that

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Maybe I can't teach the 6 ideas I want in an honors seminar as I could in a PhD seminar,

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but I can do 2 of them if I go at the right pace.

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It's why I thank honors students and honors classes and

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seminars and my acknowledgments to the things that I publish,

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because I teach the things I need

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to do

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to be the kind of philosopher I want.

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So that's one of the great things about honors for me

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is it allows an undergraduate experience to keep me abreast of what's going.

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And usually

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the professors do that with PhD students and

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I get to do it with advanced undergraduates,

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um,

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on that note,

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you serve as both a professor and a dean,

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which is kind of magical.

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um,

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so what are some of the advantages of being both in a

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classroom and at the administrative level

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working with students in both capacities?

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Being a professor helps me be a Dean because I never

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am

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allowed to forget

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what the first year class is like,

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what the students are like,

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what their concerns are,

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how things have changed in the 20/20 years that I've been here.

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So I love that.

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It makes me

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think as a Dean about what

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this next incoming group needs

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in their differences from fond memories that I have from

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Has passed,

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so I like that quite.

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I like not being addressed as Dean in the classroom.

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I don't want to be the Dean.

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I want to be a professor and a philosopher.

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So

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I asked students if they wouldn't mind

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not

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using that title in the classroom.

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Go for a professor or a doctor.

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Because I don't want that administrative thing hanging over the

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task that I've set by the books I've assigned.

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But I like how much insight it gives me when I come back to this office after teaching.

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Absolutely.

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I think I get that as well because

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I use my title

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to accept all kinds of invitations across campus,

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so I sling hash at the

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midnight breakfast,

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right,

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um,

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I go to almost every major event on campus to represent the college.

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I think that's important.

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I see students there.

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I see students pleased that

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myself and other honors faculty are there,

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and that helps me be the dean to realize.

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I don't just make administrative decisions or

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simply

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go to meetings,

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um,

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but I participate in the kind of

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life that a student has from

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it's why I attend move in

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and it's why

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we're required to attend.

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Medallions are

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I think from the first day to the last.

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I like being the

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Yeah,

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and we're very aware of your presence.

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Like it's notable that you are on campus all the time,

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um,

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so

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it's part of that,

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that students see you and you have a reputation

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for being a role model and changing lives,

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but how do you feel about that kind of perspective from students?

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It's more responsibility than I know how to bear,

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so

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students are surprised that I get nervous,

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but I'm nervous all the time

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before I go to class.

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Before closing night

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I understand it's a responsibility.

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I also understand that the college takes on a kind of tone

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of the person who

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is in this office.

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I try to make it a tone that others can adopt and

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contribute to in terms of difference and not just imitating

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what we do,

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but I like the ethos that I'm trying to

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make here.

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I think the repetition of excellence is a kind of progress,

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so we do things that work again and again.

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I don't find that boring.

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I find that extra.

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The new students make it different,

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but I think.

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Trying to do things that work

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is and having some tradition and expectation.

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What do you think as being a dean and a professor,

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where do you think you have the most impact on students' lives?

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I wouldn't know how to hierarchize it,

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I do different things different ways.

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I am hopeful it matters to our students at the West Campus that the Dean tries.

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To know

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I like to greet people

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when I see them on campus when I'm walking.

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I don't,

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they don't have to be in seminars that I teach.

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I like that.

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I'm hopeful they like that.

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I mean,

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um.

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Here's what I remember when I was you.

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My favorite professor said hello to me on campus,

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it was a great day.

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It gave me confidence

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when he or she would

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invite me to a certain kind of conversation during office hours,

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it was meaningful.

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When they listened and remembered to the kinds of things that were important to me,

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so I try to listen to students when I meet with them,

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so that when I see them I can ask.

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How's it going?

279
00:10:22.619 --> 00:10:24.030
Say something to you about Shakespeare,

280
00:10:24.099 --> 00:10:24.880
for example,

281
00:10:25.539 --> 00:10:27.739
I ask you if you really wanted the major that you.

282
00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:31.059
Absolutely.

283
00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:32.239
No,

284
00:10:32.280 --> 00:10:32.840
I did not.

285
00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:33.989
And I thought I saw that,

286
00:10:35.429 --> 00:10:36.289
absolutely changed the game for me.

287
00:10:36.919 --> 00:10:37.460
Thank you.

288
00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:38.109
Um,

289
00:10:38.359 --> 00:10:38.710
so

290
00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:40.440
being at the West Campus specifically,

291
00:10:40.479 --> 00:10:42.320
I know you've had a lot of really impactful

292
00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:44.130
changes and you've directed a lot of programs,

293
00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:44.539
but

294
00:10:44.679 --> 00:10:45.710
what have you been most fond of?

295
00:10:45.760 --> 00:10:48.479
What are some of those programs that you feel like I really did something,

296
00:10:48.520 --> 00:10:49.099
this is amazing,

297
00:10:49.239 --> 00:10:50.039
this is gonna last.

298
00:11:01.969 --> 00:11:03.479
When they asked me to be the dean again,

299
00:11:03.580 --> 00:11:05.559
I stepped away to write another book and.

300
00:11:06.520 --> 00:11:07.690
I was able to do that

301
00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:09.440
and then when Andrew Kirby,

302
00:11:09.520 --> 00:11:10.200
who was the dean.

303
00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:11.479
I was away,

304
00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:15.030
so I was the dean from 001 to late in '04,

305
00:11:15.119 --> 00:11:15.239
yeah,

306
00:11:15.479 --> 00:11:16.440
so 005,

307
00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:19.469
so I was five years and then started again in 2010.

308
00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:22.140
They asked me what it would take to get me to come back.

309
00:11:22.909 --> 00:11:23.349
I said,

310
00:11:23.469 --> 00:11:23.859
well,

311
00:11:24.030 --> 00:11:24.979
I need all of the.

312
00:11:25.770 --> 00:11:26.789
2000

313
00:11:26.929 --> 00:11:28.130
UCB 201.

314
00:11:28.409 --> 00:11:29.630
I need the entire suite.

315
00:11:30.210 --> 00:11:32.890
We were sharing the space with 4 or 5 other divisions.

316
00:11:32.969 --> 00:11:33.789
It was horrible.

317
00:11:34.669 --> 00:11:34.679
Um,

318
00:11:34.690 --> 00:11:36.960
we made it work because we were welcoming and so on,

319
00:11:37.010 --> 00:11:37.909
but it wasn't right.

320
00:11:38.729 --> 00:11:38.770
Uh,

321
00:11:38.929 --> 00:11:41.909
we had trouble recruiting students because we had nowhere to walk them through and

322
00:11:45.340 --> 00:11:47.169
Heron Fanne was instrumental with me.

323
00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:52.159
Getting the plans for UCB 201 and we knocked down walls and we.

324
00:11:53.179 --> 00:11:53.679
So,

325
00:11:54.059 --> 00:11:56.320
and it was a wonderful collaboration because

326
00:11:56.460 --> 00:11:57.940
the new college or the.

327
00:11:59.280 --> 00:12:01.710
Dean of the new College and was also the vice provost

328
00:12:01.710 --> 00:12:04.190
of the campus and understood what Barrett meant to the campus.

329
00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:06.080
She's the one who asked me what I needed,

330
00:12:06.400 --> 00:12:08.450
so she gave me all of the funds to.

331
00:12:09.400 --> 00:12:10.840
Remodel this entire space.

332
00:12:12.330 --> 00:12:13.869
She gave me the freedom to decide what

333
00:12:13.869 --> 00:12:16.159
that remodel would look like and didn't interfere.

334
00:12:16.359 --> 00:12:19.549
She thought we understood what we wanted and Heron was really good at that,

335
00:12:19.559 --> 00:12:19.919
and

336
00:12:20.359 --> 00:12:21.280
she and I worked together.

337
00:12:25.539 --> 00:12:27.000
Then Marc Jacobs

338
00:12:27.299 --> 00:12:28.460
understood what it meant,

339
00:12:28.859 --> 00:12:31.340
so he gave me the budget to furnish.

340
00:12:33.119 --> 00:12:33.500
This space.

341
00:12:34.530 --> 00:12:35.650
So if you're looking for

342
00:12:36.630 --> 00:12:37.909
funny anecdotes,

343
00:12:38.010 --> 00:12:38.890
then here's one.

344
00:12:39.429 --> 00:12:42.380
Goodman's Furniture came out and I had a budget from Dean Jacobs,

345
00:12:42.390 --> 00:12:43.219
and they said,

346
00:12:43.700 --> 00:12:44.590
here's a catalog,

347
00:12:44.630 --> 00:12:46.070
you should choose the kind of furniture you want,

348
00:12:46.150 --> 00:12:46.510
and I said,

349
00:12:46.590 --> 00:12:47.510
but there are no prices here,

350
00:12:47.630 --> 00:12:47.859
they said,

351
00:12:47.909 --> 00:12:48.789
just choose what you like.

352
00:12:50.169 --> 00:12:52.049
So I chose what my taste

353
00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:53.179
wanted and it was,

354
00:12:53.239 --> 00:12:53.590
I think,

355
00:12:53.599 --> 00:12:55.159
5.5 times the budget.

356
00:12:57.710 --> 00:12:59.950
So we had to change our taste a little bit.

357
00:13:00.150 --> 00:13:02.190
I still think we did all right taste-wise.

358
00:13:02.309 --> 00:13:03.659
We had a color palette.

359
00:13:03.750 --> 00:13:05.130
We were trying to do something.

360
00:13:05.469 --> 00:13:05.780
Um,

361
00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:08.390
the furniture is now over 8 years old.

362
00:13:08.549 --> 00:13:09.799
It's held up well.

363
00:13:09.880 --> 00:13:10.849
We care for it.

364
00:13:11.289 --> 00:13:12.890
We tried to make each room unique.

365
00:13:13.030 --> 00:13:14.510
We tried to name the rooms.

366
00:13:14.909 --> 00:13:16.409
We wanted them to have a purpose.

367
00:13:17.070 --> 00:13:20.830
I think that makes it easier to tour students when you can say you're on a tour.

368
00:13:20.909 --> 00:13:22.929
This room is called Rosalind Franklin because.

369
00:13:23.630 --> 00:13:25.299
That was a name that came from students,

370
00:13:25.979 --> 00:13:26.739
young women scientists.

371
00:13:26.789 --> 00:13:28.669
I didn't know who Rosalind Franklin was I.

372
00:13:30.880 --> 00:13:33.780
And those are the kinds of things that I think just add a little bit of touch

373
00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:34.599
to what we try to.

374
00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:36.809
So I thought that was a big deal.

375
00:13:38.830 --> 00:13:40.599
I think our classroom is a beautiful space.

376
00:13:41.260 --> 00:13:41.479
Susie.

377
00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:44.169
If it's a mural.

378
00:13:45.140 --> 00:13:45.549
Oh yes,

379
00:13:45.669 --> 00:13:47.049
would you like to hear the Meryl story?

380
00:13:47.150 --> 00:13:47.469
Uh-huh.

381
00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:50.679
I was told I could have that room,

382
00:13:50.750 --> 00:13:52.780
which had been dormant for quite some time,

383
00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:55.799
and I said I would use Barrett Fonds to remodel it,

384
00:13:56.239 --> 00:13:59.169
but that I had to paint over the mural that was along the back wall,

385
00:13:59.640 --> 00:14:00.119
and they said,

386
00:14:00.280 --> 00:14:00.400
no,

387
00:14:00.479 --> 00:14:01.260
that's our only

388
00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:02.150
rule,

389
00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:03.520
you can have the room if you don't,

390
00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:04.789
but you have to leave the mural.

391
00:14:07.010 --> 00:14:08.450
It wasn't just my taste that thought,

392
00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:10.539
so it was the worst mural in the history of the world,

393
00:14:10.820 --> 00:14:11.349
and

394
00:14:11.650 --> 00:14:12.590
it had to go.

395
00:14:13.210 --> 00:14:13.669
So

396
00:14:13.809 --> 00:14:16.570
I finally kept saying this won't do,

397
00:14:16.609 --> 00:14:17.669
it doesn't fit

398
00:14:17.969 --> 00:14:19.119
what the room has to do.

399
00:14:19.409 --> 00:14:20.359
It has to have a feel,

400
00:14:20.409 --> 00:14:21.729
it has to have an attitude in it,

401
00:14:21.770 --> 00:14:23.349
it has to be a place where.

402
00:14:24.710 --> 00:14:25.390
When we enter,

403
00:14:25.510 --> 00:14:26.969
we know we're about to do,

404
00:14:27.469 --> 00:14:29.289
we're going to read good books and talk about them,

405
00:14:29.309 --> 00:14:30.669
and that mural doesn't say anything.

406
00:14:32.299 --> 00:14:34.450
So I made this concession and I finally got them to say,

407
00:14:34.469 --> 00:14:34.940
OK,

408
00:14:35.070 --> 00:14:37.710
so I had to leave some remnant of the,

409
00:14:38.229 --> 00:14:38.909
of the mural.

410
00:14:39.309 --> 00:14:42.609
So I searched all of its images and I found an owl,

411
00:14:42.909 --> 00:14:44.909
and that seemed like Athena or Minerva.

412
00:14:45.190 --> 00:14:46.250
It seemed like wisdom

413
00:14:46.789 --> 00:14:48.710
and it seemed like the fine concession.

414
00:14:48.869 --> 00:14:50.900
So I talked the painters into covering the owl.

415
00:14:51.190 --> 00:14:52.609
They painted the entire mural,

416
00:14:52.950 --> 00:14:54.020
and then they removed the.

417
00:14:54.820 --> 00:14:57.130
Blue tape and there's the owl staring out at us.

418
00:14:57.530 --> 00:14:58.330
It's a good conversation piece

419
00:14:59.570 --> 00:14:59.929
and we put,

420
00:14:59.969 --> 00:15:03.789
I thought a nice passage from Plato along the back wall that I think

421
00:15:04.289 --> 00:15:07.729
captures uh what the human event in the history of ideas tries to do.

422
00:15:11.099 --> 00:15:11.700
I was

423
00:15:12.059 --> 00:15:14.140
asked for a little bit more money and was granted it

424
00:15:14.140 --> 00:15:16.679
because I wanted those chairs because I thought they were gorgeous

425
00:15:16.940 --> 00:15:18.469
and I think aesthetics matter,

426
00:15:19.030 --> 00:15:22.059
so we chose a certain kind of color for the carpet and the tables.

427
00:15:23.059 --> 00:15:25.539
Some of my colleagues were upset that the tables didn't have wheels,

428
00:15:25.619 --> 00:15:26.280
but that's exactly

429
00:15:26.390 --> 00:15:29.380
what I thought we needed was a room that couldn't be rearranged

430
00:15:29.380 --> 00:15:31.500
because it should look like a seminar room all the time.

431
00:15:31.929 --> 00:15:33.330
If we need to move tables,

432
00:15:33.380 --> 00:15:33.979
we'll go to another.

433
00:15:35.359 --> 00:15:35.909
Absolutely,

434
00:15:36.299 --> 00:15:36.309
it,

435
00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:38.719
it belongs like that in the back of that chair,

436
00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:39.570
I just,

437
00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:41.159
it pleases me every time I go in there.

438
00:15:41.330 --> 00:15:41.609
That's great.

439
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:43.619
I had students test the chair,

440
00:15:43.719 --> 00:15:47.299
we had a version of it up here and people came through and gave me their reviews.

441
00:15:48.309 --> 00:15:49.919
A popular review of the chair was,

442
00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:51.000
is this too much detail?

443
00:15:52.849 --> 00:15:53.049
Go for it.

444
00:15:53.409 --> 00:15:53.880
Is it?

445
00:15:53.940 --> 00:15:54.049
No,

446
00:15:54.099 --> 00:15:54.580
this is great.

447
00:15:54.690 --> 00:15:55.539
This is the kind of stuff we need

448
00:15:56.169 --> 00:15:56.679
is that

449
00:15:57.179 --> 00:15:59.780
it's just comfortable enough not to want to get out of,

450
00:15:59.940 --> 00:16:01.859
but not comfortable enough that you can slouch in it.

451
00:16:01.900 --> 00:16:04.000
And I thought that's exact that's a seminar chair,

452
00:16:04.969 --> 00:16:04.979
right?

453
00:16:04.989 --> 00:16:05.099
Relax,

454
00:16:05.109 --> 00:16:07.280
but you have to sit up and take,

455
00:16:07.700 --> 00:16:08.099
take notes.

456
00:16:08.260 --> 00:16:09.840
So I thought they were the perfect chair,

457
00:16:09.890 --> 00:16:12.000
and you don't see students sitting like I am now

458
00:16:12.419 --> 00:16:12.859
in this chair,

459
00:16:12.940 --> 00:16:13.159
right?

460
00:16:13.479 --> 00:16:13.489
They,

461
00:16:13.580 --> 00:16:14.859
you just can't do it in that chair.

462
00:16:15.260 --> 00:16:17.270
And I think that's a virtue of its design,

463
00:16:17.380 --> 00:16:18.380
and I like designers.

464
00:16:18.419 --> 00:16:19.609
I think they're smart people.

465
00:16:19.969 --> 00:16:21.700
They work hard at making good things and so.

466
00:16:22.750 --> 00:16:24.609
We honored them by trying to make the room beautiful.

467
00:16:24.739 --> 00:16:24.750
Yeah,

468
00:16:25.719 --> 00:16:26.390
and it had an impact on the people,

469
00:16:26.510 --> 00:16:27.229
so I'm hopeful.

470
00:16:28.419 --> 00:16:28.940
I think this,

471
00:16:29.020 --> 00:16:30.500
don't you think when students come,

472
00:16:31.020 --> 00:16:32.679
you must have been in seminars where.

473
00:16:33.729 --> 00:16:34.609
Students we're recruiting

474
00:16:35.429 --> 00:16:36.669
to sit in on the event one day.

475
00:16:36.940 --> 00:16:38.979
I think they're impressed by that and they get the little chair and they're like,

476
00:16:38.989 --> 00:16:39.369
wow,

477
00:16:39.580 --> 00:16:41.460
this is an experience with the room and the setup.

478
00:16:41.469 --> 00:16:41.479
Yeah,

479
00:16:42.739 --> 00:16:43.440
they always look very like,

480
00:16:43.450 --> 00:16:44.059
wow,

481
00:16:44.190 --> 00:16:44.390
I'm,

482
00:16:44.429 --> 00:16:45.059
I'm small.

483
00:16:45.119 --> 00:16:45.780
This is intense.

484
00:16:46.349 --> 00:16:46.760
Um,

485
00:16:47.929 --> 00:16:48.979
so other details about West,

486
00:16:49.070 --> 00:16:51.349
we are very different from Polly and Tempe.

487
00:16:52.390 --> 00:16:52.849
Um,

488
00:16:53.070 --> 00:16:53.530
downtown,

489
00:16:53.669 --> 00:16:54.869
so what are some specific,

490
00:16:54.950 --> 00:16:55.059
we're,

491
00:16:56.390 --> 00:16:57.630
we're very different from everything,

492
00:16:57.950 --> 00:17:01.130
but what are some specific challenges that we had to face to be what we are now,

493
00:17:01.390 --> 00:17:01.710
like

494
00:17:01.989 --> 00:17:03.590
some really big things we overcame.

495
00:17:04.749 --> 00:17:08.378
Buried at this campus suffered because the West campus suffered when.

496
00:17:09.270 --> 00:17:09.750
The

497
00:17:10.189 --> 00:17:12.839
president of the university was in a.

498
00:17:13.670 --> 00:17:14.368
Kind of

499
00:17:14.910 --> 00:17:15.848
press war

500
00:17:16.348 --> 00:17:17.608
with with um.

501
00:17:18.500 --> 00:17:19.339
Legislatures.

502
00:17:20.280 --> 00:17:22.118
And he offhandedly said that,

503
00:17:22.479 --> 00:17:24.180
well then we'll disclose the West Campus,

504
00:17:24.959 --> 00:17:26.719
but it got a kind of traction in the press,

505
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:30.719
so we dealt for years and years and still to the to today

506
00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:31.900
find this a problem

507
00:17:32.560 --> 00:17:34.140
that people don't know that Barrett is here.

508
00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:35.079
Some people

509
00:17:35.930 --> 00:17:38.010
Still wanna know when the campus is going to close.

510
00:17:39.069 --> 00:17:40.040
So those were real

511
00:17:40.579 --> 00:17:41.410
difficulties.

512
00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:45.260
The life of Barrett at the West Campus is tied to the life of the West Campus,

513
00:17:45.459 --> 00:17:47.680
so when the new College and the West Campus go well.

514
00:17:48.430 --> 00:17:49.380
Barrett does better,

515
00:17:49.790 --> 00:17:52.910
Barrett helps them clearly by bringing students like yourselves here.

516
00:17:54.469 --> 00:17:56.219
But we can only be as good as the

517
00:17:56.520 --> 00:17:57.599
reputation of the campus,

518
00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:59.520
it seems we've helped that reputation great.

519
00:18:00.310 --> 00:18:00.319
But

520
00:18:00.790 --> 00:18:01.770
I would say from.

521
00:18:02.560 --> 00:18:03.310
08

522
00:18:03.449 --> 00:18:04.550
to at least.

523
00:18:05.280 --> 00:18:06.479
13 or 14,

524
00:18:06.560 --> 00:18:07.300
maybe later,

525
00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:08.500
we suffered

526
00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:10.060
dearly for that

527
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:12.359
war of words that was taking place in the press.

528
00:18:14.310 --> 00:18:15.520
When people ask

529
00:18:16.619 --> 00:18:17.260
This hurts.

530
00:18:17.540 --> 00:18:19.420
Is it really Barrett at last?

531
00:18:19.760 --> 00:18:20.790
that crushes me

532
00:18:21.020 --> 00:18:21.270
because,

533
00:18:21.380 --> 00:18:21.790
as you know,

534
00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:23.500
we carry out the entire Barrett mission here.

535
00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:27.949
I think one of the virtues of Dean Jacobs is to allow someone

536
00:18:28.520 --> 00:18:30.430
with the title of Associate Dean and then

537
00:18:30.569 --> 00:18:31.930
be called Dean on that campus.

538
00:18:32.959 --> 00:18:34.900
To make decisions that fit the campus

539
00:18:35.349 --> 00:18:38.569
and not try to imitate what they do in Tempe so successfully because

540
00:18:38.750 --> 00:18:40.550
they do something at a kind of scale we can't,

541
00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:42.420
so we should do some things better

542
00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:44.079
and there's probably things we can't do as

543
00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:45.640
well because you need a larger student body.

544
00:18:47.089 --> 00:18:48.729
And we've got our biggest freshman class.

545
00:18:48.959 --> 00:18:49.449
Like we're growing,

546
00:18:49.530 --> 00:18:50.390
we're doing things well.

547
00:18:52.739 --> 00:18:53.849
Our growth that we would be better

548
00:18:54.290 --> 00:18:56.050
if we had a full-time recruiter and

549
00:18:56.900 --> 00:18:57.670
arguments were

550
00:18:58.060 --> 00:19:00.369
understood in Tempe and we were given a recruiter.

551
00:19:02.989 --> 00:19:04.219
She just gave me numbers for,

552
00:19:06.390 --> 00:19:08.260
26 students ahead of where we were this time

553
00:19:08.260 --> 00:19:10.239
last year when we admitted our largest class ever.

554
00:19:11.170 --> 00:19:11.569
long shot.

555
00:19:12.969 --> 00:19:14.540
This is actually a good place for me to jump in.

556
00:19:14.800 --> 00:19:15.949
It's Eric Oberly on the,

557
00:19:15.969 --> 00:19:17.079
for the recording's sake here,

558
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:18.609
which is that one of the design goals of

559
00:19:18.609 --> 00:19:21.180
the whole university is embeddedness in the community.

560
00:19:21.410 --> 00:19:24.170
And maybe it'd be good if all of you just talked a little bit about

561
00:19:24.410 --> 00:19:25.069
how you feel

562
00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:25.930
west,

563
00:19:26.329 --> 00:19:27.089
the westness,

564
00:19:27.209 --> 00:19:27.369
right,

565
00:19:27.449 --> 00:19:31.290
the embeddedness in the West community is important to your experience here and.

566
00:19:32.250 --> 00:19:35.689
Maybe I'll comment on it because I think that's also part of the function.

567
00:19:38.900 --> 00:19:39.339
Hi hello,

568
00:19:39.699 --> 00:19:40.099
um.

569
00:19:41.010 --> 00:19:42.170
I just love how

570
00:19:42.410 --> 00:19:42.930
it's.

571
00:19:46.969 --> 00:19:47.329
Um

572
00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:51.719
I love small schools.

573
00:19:52.239 --> 00:19:55.859
I have to be in a small school because otherwise I'll feel so

574
00:19:56.189 --> 00:19:57.439
cloistered and

575
00:19:58.369 --> 00:19:59.099
Unimportant.

576
00:19:59.829 --> 00:20:01.229
And relatively.

577
00:20:02.069 --> 00:20:02.689
Tiny.

578
00:20:02.810 --> 00:20:03.530
Isolated.

579
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:05.180
And it's

580
00:20:05.560 --> 00:20:06.119
like that.

581
00:20:08.699 --> 00:20:09.760
You're in a crowd,

582
00:20:10.180 --> 00:20:10.560
but

583
00:20:11.060 --> 00:20:11.609
wasn't it,

584
00:20:11.619 --> 00:20:12.329
um,

585
00:20:12.339 --> 00:20:12.939
Gatsby?

586
00:20:13.750 --> 00:20:14.359
And Gatsby,

587
00:20:14.410 --> 00:20:15.369
how they said that

588
00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:17.410
even though you're amongst a whole bunch of people,

589
00:20:17.530 --> 00:20:18.250
you can still be like,

590
00:20:18.489 --> 00:20:18.750
yes,

591
00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:19.770
it's Gatsby.

592
00:20:20.239 --> 00:20:20.489
Anyway.

593
00:20:21.469 --> 00:20:22.270
And I

594
00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:25.119
We do.

595
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:26.609
And I

596
00:20:27.219 --> 00:20:29.079
I never really had any friends in school.

597
00:20:30.040 --> 00:20:30.650
And so,

598
00:20:30.790 --> 00:20:31.829
but once I got to West,

599
00:20:31.869 --> 00:20:32.599
I finally had,

600
00:20:32.790 --> 00:20:34.609
I have everybody's super nice,

601
00:20:35.069 --> 00:20:37.630
and I love how kind and compassionate everybody is.

602
00:20:38.689 --> 00:20:39.290
I love.

603
00:20:40.069 --> 00:20:41.170
Being able to

604
00:20:41.310 --> 00:20:42.189
not have to

605
00:20:42.469 --> 00:20:45.109
scurry to get to classes if I need,

606
00:20:45.189 --> 00:20:46.030
if need be.

607
00:20:46.390 --> 00:20:49.849
I love that I get to have one on one time with professors.

608
00:20:50.270 --> 00:20:51.229
I love that

609
00:20:51.469 --> 00:20:52.130
I get.

610
00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:56.180
I love the smaller classrooms,

611
00:20:56.439 --> 00:20:57.729
and so I don't feel so.

612
00:20:58.729 --> 00:21:00.569
Closed off from everybody else and.

613
00:21:01.619 --> 00:21:03.280
Kind of claustrophobic at times.

614
00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:08.170
I think it's wonderful here and I love the architecture

615
00:21:08.439 --> 00:21:09.760
and just the feeling of it.

616
00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:11.140
I love all the trees.

617
00:21:11.500 --> 00:21:12.579
I love trees.

618
00:21:14.699 --> 00:21:15.739
It's a beautiful space.

619
00:21:16.410 --> 00:21:17.449
At the end of my freshman year,

620
00:21:17.500 --> 00:21:21.380
I told my mom that I don't think I would be as happy in college if I wasn't

621
00:21:21.579 --> 00:21:25.859
at West and at West Barrett because the community here is what I was looking for.

622
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:28.880
And I couldn't have captured that at Tempe

623
00:21:29.449 --> 00:21:32.609
because I want the one on one and I want the time and the space where you

624
00:21:32.609 --> 00:21:34.369
run into someone and you get into a

625
00:21:34.369 --> 00:21:36.400
conversation about biology and I know nothing about biology

626
00:21:36.930 --> 00:21:38.410
and it's beautiful and it's fun and

627
00:21:38.569 --> 00:21:40.010
you get into debates or you get out of

628
00:21:40.010 --> 00:21:42.569
class and you follow the group because they're still talking

629
00:21:42.689 --> 00:21:44.810
after the human event and we've got more to say and

630
00:21:45.050 --> 00:21:47.689
it's an incredible community that's small enough and

631
00:21:48.050 --> 00:21:49.310
it's slower

632
00:21:49.410 --> 00:21:51.550
in that you can just make your way through the day

633
00:21:51.550 --> 00:21:54.949
and the breeze and the lawns like it's gorgeous and.

634
00:21:55.390 --> 00:21:57.479
I like the pace of the West campus quite a lot.

635
00:21:57.560 --> 00:21:58.930
I think that's part of the ethos here.

636
00:22:00.010 --> 00:22:03.790
I think it was Heron who first said when I overheard her recruiting students

637
00:22:04.209 --> 00:22:06.130
the campus is large enough that you'll

638
00:22:06.709 --> 00:22:08.079
pass someone you don't know

639
00:22:08.290 --> 00:22:11.689
but small enough that it's unlike you you won't also pass someone you do know

640
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:14.910
and isn't that a nice way to think about it so it's not so

641
00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:15.969
small that it's like,

642
00:22:16.010 --> 00:22:16.449
oh God,

643
00:22:16.689 --> 00:22:17.489
not him again,

644
00:22:18.010 --> 00:22:18.400
right?

645
00:22:18.729 --> 00:22:20.069
But it's large enough.

646
00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:21.699
That you can say,

647
00:22:21.719 --> 00:22:22.000
oh,

648
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:22.829
who's that?

649
00:22:23.890 --> 00:22:25.890
Which is a fun thing to say sometimes from across the.

650
00:22:26.560 --> 00:22:26.709
Yeah,

651
00:22:27.030 --> 00:22:29.880
Plato's Republic might have worked out if it had been more like that,

652
00:22:30.689 --> 00:22:30.699
right,

653
00:22:30.800 --> 00:22:30.849
right.

654
00:22:31.979 --> 00:22:32.300
There you go.

655
00:22:33.270 --> 00:22:33.280
Yeah,

656
00:22:34.489 --> 00:22:35.030
I think

657
00:22:35.489 --> 00:22:36.150
another thing

658
00:22:36.430 --> 00:22:37.630
that I don't understand,

659
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:39.130
and I've asked students about this,

660
00:22:39.290 --> 00:22:39.609
but I,

661
00:22:39.689 --> 00:22:40.890
I don't have a keen sense.

662
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:45.420
I think we feel embedded in the campus but not in the

663
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:47.750
West surroundings because

664
00:22:47.949 --> 00:22:50.239
I don't think we're a large enough campus yet to

665
00:22:50.239 --> 00:22:52.560
influence the kind of businesses that are around us,

666
00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:56.300
and that would be nice if there were a coffee shop and a used bookstore.

667
00:22:56.689 --> 00:22:58.300
I think those things are on our horizon,

668
00:22:58.760 --> 00:22:59.099
so

669
00:22:59.479 --> 00:23:01.040
maybe that's something you'll ask me to the end,

670
00:23:01.099 --> 00:23:02.530
what do I see in the future,

671
00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:05.339
but that kind of integration of our campus into.

672
00:23:06.800 --> 00:23:08.650
I want us to build walking bridges over.

673
00:23:09.930 --> 00:23:12.479
Forty-third and over Thunderbird

674
00:23:12.760 --> 00:23:16.359
so that students can safely pass to those places

675
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:17.060
where

676
00:23:17.280 --> 00:23:19.199
they might be able to walk among those shops,

677
00:23:19.469 --> 00:23:21.400
but I want those shops to be ones that would be

678
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:23.329
Willing or

679
00:23:23.489 --> 00:23:23.920
wishing

680
00:23:24.050 --> 00:23:25.439
they could walk among and they don't have,

681
00:23:25.520 --> 00:23:26.160
we don't have that,

682
00:23:26.239 --> 00:23:26.469
yeah,

683
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:27.030
it's,

684
00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:30.079
it doesn't feel college town around here,

685
00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:30.609
even though

686
00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:33.250
this feels to me like a college campus all the time,

687
00:23:33.390 --> 00:23:33.920
a nice.

688
00:23:35.660 --> 00:23:36.829
So we try to make up for that.

689
00:23:36.869 --> 00:23:38.150
I think our first Friday things are,

690
00:23:38.390 --> 00:23:40.150
are interesting,

691
00:23:40.229 --> 00:23:40.630
um,

692
00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:43.140
We haven't done this in a while,

693
00:23:43.239 --> 00:23:44.640
but it used to be a yearly thing,

694
00:23:44.719 --> 00:23:46.339
we had a make your own culture day

695
00:23:46.839 --> 00:23:47.469
where

696
00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:49.540
students would show up in

697
00:23:49.709 --> 00:23:50.900
my home at

698
00:23:51.109 --> 00:23:51.959
10 in the morning,

699
00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:54.300
we would write a quick script

700
00:23:54.560 --> 00:23:58.099
um based on either a short story or an aphorism or something,

701
00:23:58.439 --> 00:24:00.079
a line from the symposium,

702
00:24:00.520 --> 00:24:04.780
then we would send filming crews out while the rest of us stayed behind and.

703
00:24:06.750 --> 00:24:08.030
Prepared for the barbecue,

704
00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:08.739
then the

705
00:24:09.199 --> 00:24:10.150
filmers would come back,

706
00:24:10.280 --> 00:24:11.130
they would give the

707
00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:11.859
film to the,

708
00:24:11.869 --> 00:24:12.260
the

709
00:24:12.479 --> 00:24:13.589
footage to the editors,

710
00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:16.099
they would edit while the rest of us did the barbecue,

711
00:24:16.150 --> 00:24:18.280
and then at midnight that night we would premiere the film,

712
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:19.949
so we'd make a film in one day,

713
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:21.079
that was a lot of fun,

714
00:24:21.089 --> 00:24:21.099
yeah,

715
00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:25.780
and those are lasting things because when you spend a day making art.

716
00:24:26.819 --> 00:24:27.530
Memories are made,

717
00:24:28.270 --> 00:24:28.910
but also friendships.

718
00:24:30.300 --> 00:24:33.459
So it might be nice to talk to some alumni who are a part of those.

719
00:24:35.280 --> 00:24:37.780
Great films and all of those films are archived

720
00:24:38.010 --> 00:24:38.880
by Liz Marini.

721
00:24:40.050 --> 00:24:41.849
And some every once in a while I get.

722
00:24:43.010 --> 00:24:43.449
Forgive me,

723
00:24:43.530 --> 00:24:44.209
maybe nostalgic,

724
00:24:44.250 --> 00:24:44.810
I don't know,

725
00:24:45.089 --> 00:24:48.250
but I ask if we can have an afternoon where we just run them all

726
00:24:48.810 --> 00:24:49.250
back to back.

727
00:24:50.150 --> 00:24:51.040
That's very

728
00:24:51.510 --> 00:24:53.989
representative of the community though that's exactly who we are.

729
00:24:54.060 --> 00:24:55.489
We're very creative and we're very

730
00:24:55.670 --> 00:24:56.270
active and.

731
00:24:58.229 --> 00:24:59.109
I really enjoy that.

732
00:24:59.660 --> 00:25:00.910
In addition to hosting that at your home,

733
00:25:00.979 --> 00:25:03.609
I know you host Thanksgiving as a tradition,

734
00:25:03.619 --> 00:25:04.449
which I've heard a lot about.

735
00:25:04.510 --> 00:25:05.189
I have not made it yet.

736
00:25:05.229 --> 00:25:06.130
I intend to next year.

737
00:25:06.630 --> 00:25:06.969
What is

738
00:25:07.219 --> 00:25:07.910
that about?

739
00:25:08.030 --> 00:25:08.829
What does it mean to you?

740
00:25:09.109 --> 00:25:09.300
Well,

741
00:25:09.430 --> 00:25:13.250
that was something that a professor did for students of whom I was one,

742
00:25:13.829 --> 00:25:14.989
and it was quite meaningful,

743
00:25:15.030 --> 00:25:15.650
and I thought.

744
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:18.359
I.

745
00:25:19.109 --> 00:25:20.439
We all imitate the people we think.

746
00:25:21.109 --> 00:25:21.829
We like so

747
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:23.369
I that was something I took over.

748
00:25:27.420 --> 00:25:29.949
So it started in 200 and

749
00:25:30.819 --> 00:25:31.300
5.

750
00:25:32.930 --> 00:25:34.369
And it's gone every year since then.

751
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:37.599
It's probably not the best name,

752
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:39.260
but we call it orphan Thanksgiving,

753
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:41.260
but we just mean those folks who,

754
00:25:41.310 --> 00:25:42.660
who are unable to get,

755
00:25:42.719 --> 00:25:44.760
whether through distance or some other reason,

756
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:45.270
um,

757
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:46.180
are unable

758
00:25:46.520 --> 00:25:46.780
to,

759
00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:48.329
to get to a Thanksgiving meal.

760
00:25:50.050 --> 00:25:52.390
We make a number of turkeys and do all of the cooking,

761
00:25:52.770 --> 00:25:53.189
it's

762
00:25:53.469 --> 00:25:53.790
in

763
00:25:53.890 --> 00:25:54.329
recent years,

764
00:25:54.410 --> 00:25:57.859
it's been joined by the co-host of Sohini Roy and Doctor Michael Walker,

765
00:25:58.250 --> 00:25:59.130
both Barrett West.

766
00:26:00.719 --> 00:26:01.439
It's a wonderful day.

767
00:26:03.150 --> 00:26:03.989
About 6 o'clock,

768
00:26:04.189 --> 00:26:06.160
students who for whatever reason.

769
00:26:08.229 --> 00:26:09.709
Start showing up also for dessert,

770
00:26:09.829 --> 00:26:10.729
so we have

771
00:26:11.229 --> 00:26:13.530
between 10 and 30 for dinner

772
00:26:14.030 --> 00:26:14.630
and then

773
00:26:15.770 --> 00:26:16.550
Scores more

774
00:26:16.689 --> 00:26:17.329
for dessert,

775
00:26:17.569 --> 00:26:19.849
it's also become a place where Barrett West alumni

776
00:26:20.209 --> 00:26:21.130
know that they can meet.

777
00:26:22.800 --> 00:26:23.869
If they're all in town,

778
00:26:24.199 --> 00:26:24.500
so

779
00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:28.359
that dessert also becomes a kind of alumni West reunion time.

780
00:26:30.270 --> 00:26:31.910
I like watching the returning

781
00:26:32.109 --> 00:26:34.459
alumni talk with the current students,

782
00:26:34.630 --> 00:26:34.920
um,

783
00:26:35.109 --> 00:26:37.650
many of them are doing the very thing that the current student

784
00:26:37.819 --> 00:26:38.579
wishes to do,

785
00:26:38.949 --> 00:26:40.869
they're MDs or attorneys or some such thing,

786
00:26:41.109 --> 00:26:41.550
that's.

787
00:26:43.520 --> 00:26:44.390
College professors,

788
00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:46.020
so I think that we,

789
00:26:46.280 --> 00:26:48.979
we're old enough now to have those kinds of successes

790
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:51.540
that I think inspired the

791
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:52.599
first year students who were there.

792
00:26:54.859 --> 00:26:55.979
Or at least the current students,

793
00:26:56.060 --> 00:26:57.180
they're not all first year students.

794
00:27:01.260 --> 00:27:01.800
So I like that.

795
00:27:02.459 --> 00:27:02.579
Yeah,

796
00:27:02.660 --> 00:27:03.140
that's fun.

797
00:27:03.290 --> 00:27:05.829
I think it's really special and that's also just really

798
00:27:06.020 --> 00:27:07.239
that's so West campus

799
00:27:07.619 --> 00:27:09.420
to do and I really think that's beautiful,

800
00:27:09.739 --> 00:27:12.319
just being that one on one with the professors and.

801
00:27:13.660 --> 00:27:14.410
It's really magical.

802
00:27:15.060 --> 00:27:18.319
Are there any events that we hold throughout the year that you really value?

803
00:27:19.260 --> 00:27:19.680
special.

804
00:27:27.140 --> 00:27:30.189
I know how special it is from the student report,

805
00:27:30.780 --> 00:27:32.040
the closing night.

806
00:27:32.979 --> 00:27:35.410
It's oddly the thing that I always ask the staff,

807
00:27:35.500 --> 00:27:36.770
do we really have to do this again?

808
00:27:36.939 --> 00:27:37.400
And they say,

809
00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:37.819
absolutely.

810
00:27:38.520 --> 00:27:39.750
And every year I think they're

811
00:27:40.430 --> 00:27:41.550
I don't know why I keep asking.

812
00:27:42.869 --> 00:27:43.699
But I think it's a

813
00:27:43.869 --> 00:27:44.599
a lovely evening.

814
00:27:47.300 --> 00:27:50.380
I think opening night is a nice way to be serious at the beginning.

815
00:27:53.650 --> 00:27:54.829
I'm a fan of our formal

816
00:27:55.540 --> 00:27:55.969
Dance.

817
00:27:57.500 --> 00:27:57.510
The.

818
00:27:59.050 --> 00:27:59.670
I think that's lovely

819
00:28:01.229 --> 00:28:01.939
I was mistaken,

820
00:28:02.020 --> 00:28:03.339
I thought for the 10th anniversary,

821
00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:05.500
the live band was going to be perfect and it wasn't.

822
00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:07.489
That's alright,

823
00:28:07.650 --> 00:28:09.250
we keep trying things and then we edit.

824
00:28:10.900 --> 00:28:11.579
I like the

825
00:28:16.550 --> 00:28:17.020
I.

826
00:28:18.520 --> 00:28:19.680
I enjoy

827
00:28:20.130 --> 00:28:21.260
the opportunity

828
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:22.520
to invite

829
00:28:22.869 --> 00:28:24.719
scholars from around the US and the world.

830
00:28:26.060 --> 00:28:28.800
And I like giving Barrett students the opportunity then to dine with them

831
00:28:29.099 --> 00:28:30.270
either at a lunch or a dinner.

832
00:28:31.030 --> 00:28:31.219
Um,

833
00:28:31.229 --> 00:28:34.349
I think it's important to be able to meet those kinds of people.

834
00:28:34.699 --> 00:28:35.569
Sometimes you don't know

835
00:28:35.869 --> 00:28:37.989
just who you've met until sometime later,

836
00:28:38.030 --> 00:28:38.689
but that's OK,

837
00:28:39.109 --> 00:28:40.270
because I think our students are.

838
00:28:41.439 --> 00:28:43.800
Trained well enough in various ways through

839
00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:45.719
being in a club with Liz or Susan or.

840
00:28:49.469 --> 00:28:51.530
I think that's I think it's just important to be

841
00:28:51.810 --> 00:28:54.170
around intellectuals and to remind ourselves that

842
00:28:54.630 --> 00:28:55.510
culture still thinks it's.

843
00:28:56.939 --> 00:28:58.420
There'd be such a thing as intellectuals.

844
00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:00.040
Yeah,

845
00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:01.119
and I have a role to play.

846
00:29:01.199 --> 00:29:01.800
I know that

847
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:02.550
for me,

848
00:29:02.560 --> 00:29:02.780
especially,

849
00:29:02.959 --> 00:29:06.040
opening night was like emotional and I didn't anticipate it to be,

850
00:29:06.280 --> 00:29:07.349
but I came back and I was like,

851
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:08.000
oh,

852
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:09.260
I'm returning to my home.

853
00:29:09.449 --> 00:29:09.589
Like,

854
00:29:09.760 --> 00:29:09.839
oh,

855
00:29:11.310 --> 00:29:13.000
I see you back at this community where all my

856
00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:15.079
people are and I can talk to people about it.

857
00:29:15.099 --> 00:29:17.239
Was was the most recent one your sophomore year?

858
00:29:18.510 --> 00:29:18.880
Technically,

859
00:29:19.069 --> 00:29:19.079
yeah,

860
00:29:19.170 --> 00:29:19.329
OK,

861
00:29:19.449 --> 00:29:21.770
so Doctor Murphy's talk was actually quite moving.

862
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:22.170
Yes,

863
00:29:22.290 --> 00:29:24.189
and the year before I thought Wattros was great.

864
00:29:24.829 --> 00:29:24.839
Um,

865
00:29:24.849 --> 00:29:25.180
I,

866
00:29:25.290 --> 00:29:26.790
I think asking the faculty

867
00:29:27.369 --> 00:29:30.449
to say something reminds the students that we are in this together.

868
00:29:30.530 --> 00:29:31.930
This is something that we do.

869
00:29:31.939 --> 00:29:31.949
Yeah.

870
00:29:32.569 --> 00:29:32.609
Oh,

871
00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:33.569
I'm so happy to hear that.

872
00:29:34.369 --> 00:29:36.619
And having the Barrett faculty available all

873
00:29:36.619 --> 00:29:38.000
the time is really awesome and staff here

874
00:29:41.040 --> 00:29:43.140
and the university officials want me to move the faculty out of the suite,

875
00:29:43.280 --> 00:29:47.439
but I resist because that's part of the beauty of this place.

876
00:29:48.380 --> 00:29:49.219
They're just mistaken,

877
00:29:49.339 --> 00:29:50.619
they don't quite understand

878
00:29:50.900 --> 00:29:51.140
the,

879
00:29:51.300 --> 00:29:52.160
it seems to me,

880
00:29:52.260 --> 00:29:52.560
the

881
00:29:52.660 --> 00:29:56.260
pedagogical function of having Waresa's door open where

882
00:29:56.260 --> 00:29:57.540
you can talk with her at your leisure.

883
00:29:58.199 --> 00:29:59.439
Especially for human events students,

884
00:29:59.500 --> 00:30:00.359
I think at that first level and then,

885
00:30:01.280 --> 00:30:01.500
yeah,

886
00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:02.979
that's a stressful moment

887
00:30:03.270 --> 00:30:03.880
coming out of that.

888
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:07.349
I realized just how much we were reading and how much work that was,

889
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:08.339
and I didn't realize,

890
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:10.880
and then I'm going into non-honors classes and I'm like.

891
00:30:11.760 --> 00:30:12.229
All right,

892
00:30:12.579 --> 00:30:12.890
all right.

893
00:30:14.500 --> 00:30:17.459
I once had a dream that this would be the non-textbook campus.

894
00:30:18.280 --> 00:30:19.170
It would be the text,

895
00:30:19.449 --> 00:30:20.770
it would be the primary text campus,

896
00:30:20.890 --> 00:30:21.930
wouldn't that be glorious?

897
00:30:22.209 --> 00:30:23.719
You couldn't teach any class with a textbook,

898
00:30:23.810 --> 00:30:24.209
maybe,

899
00:30:24.369 --> 00:30:26.170
maybe in the skills and sciences,

900
00:30:26.250 --> 00:30:26.569
but

901
00:30:26.930 --> 00:30:28.449
if you were teaching intro to sociology,

902
00:30:28.489 --> 00:30:29.609
you'd have to read Weber and.

903
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:32.170
Every,

904
00:30:33.530 --> 00:30:34.849
this is what people don't understand,

905
00:30:34.969 --> 00:30:36.369
they think the classics only belong,

906
00:30:36.489 --> 00:30:37.089
I don't know to whom.

907
00:30:37.989 --> 00:30:39.040
But there's classics in every,

908
00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:39.319
yeah,

909
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:40.329
to the dead.

910
00:30:40.800 --> 00:30:42.060
They belong to the living.

911
00:30:42.479 --> 00:30:42.880
That's what,

912
00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:43.839
that's why they're classics.

913
00:30:44.030 --> 00:30:45.670
But every discipline has its classics,

914
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:47.130
and that's how you should introduce people.

915
00:30:47.760 --> 00:30:48.800
So I ask students often,

916
00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:52.119
what if every one of your intro classes was like the human event?

917
00:30:52.430 --> 00:30:53.199
Their eyes light out,

918
00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:53.760
they go,

919
00:30:54.239 --> 00:30:54.939
that would be better.

920
00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:55.640
We could have a,

921
00:30:55.760 --> 00:30:57.239
we could have a psychology class like that.

922
00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:57.560
I,

923
00:30:58.079 --> 00:30:58.239
yes,

924
00:30:58.400 --> 00:30:59.640
professors can do whatever they want.

925
00:30:59.959 --> 00:31:00.479
So why did

926
00:31:02.430 --> 00:31:02.520
Oh,

927
00:31:02.560 --> 00:31:03.239
you can see.

928
00:31:03.469 --> 00:31:04.829
Why do professors do that then?

929
00:31:05.390 --> 00:31:07.280
Sometimes accidentally we all teach them something,

930
00:31:07.420 --> 00:31:07.520
right?

931
00:31:07.660 --> 00:31:07.670
Yeah.

932
00:31:07.719 --> 00:31:09.180
And we all think accidentally.

933
00:31:10.770 --> 00:31:11.030
Right.

934
00:31:12.650 --> 00:31:13.650
There's a there's there's a,

935
00:31:13.699 --> 00:31:16.219
there's a passage from Michelle Foucault that I sometimes cite.

936
00:31:17.750 --> 00:31:18.699
About how

937
00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:20.949
you have to really work to make education seem to more.

938
00:31:22.890 --> 00:31:22.900
Um,

939
00:31:23.199 --> 00:31:24.349
and yet we do it,

940
00:31:24.369 --> 00:31:25.010
and it's just,

941
00:31:25.050 --> 00:31:25.750
it's sinful.

942
00:31:27.670 --> 00:31:28.569
It that

943
00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:29.209
that passage,

944
00:31:29.540 --> 00:31:31.650
which I sometimes quote at length has gotten me in trouble,

945
00:31:31.660 --> 00:31:32.069
by the way,

946
00:31:32.180 --> 00:31:32.530
yeah,

947
00:31:32.949 --> 00:31:33.310
because.

948
00:31:34.300 --> 00:31:35.300
Is that the one where,

949
00:31:35.349 --> 00:31:38.939
where Foucault actually talks about the impossibility of teaching too?

950
00:31:39.020 --> 00:31:39.180
Is,

951
00:31:39.189 --> 00:31:40.069
is it's the same thing,

952
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:40.670
but he says if,

953
00:31:41.550 --> 00:31:41.560
uh,

954
00:31:41.569 --> 00:31:42.810
should I go on record saying this?

955
00:31:43.650 --> 00:31:44.569
We can edit it out.

956
00:31:47.030 --> 00:31:50.410
He says if you just let education be what it is,

957
00:31:51.030 --> 00:31:53.650
then it would be as pleasurable as sexuality

958
00:31:53.890 --> 00:31:57.109
and that people would be crashing university doors trying to get in,

959
00:31:57.219 --> 00:31:59.189
that everyone would want to be here,

960
00:31:59.589 --> 00:32:01.579
but he thinks we make it boring so we can

961
00:32:01.579 --> 00:32:03.270
restrict the numbers of people that we have to.

962
00:32:04.819 --> 00:32:06.920
And so I said that at a public meeting and the

963
00:32:07.459 --> 00:32:10.339
the then president of the Barrett Parents Association.

964
00:32:11.380 --> 00:32:14.829
Went to the microphone and said how inappropriate what I just said was.

965
00:32:15.959 --> 00:32:18.020
Other parents came up to me pleasure,

966
00:32:18.030 --> 00:32:18.040
right,

967
00:32:18.619 --> 00:32:18.680
it's

968
00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:18.849
true,

969
00:32:20.459 --> 00:32:22.839
but other parents came up to me afterwards and said I understood.

970
00:32:25.069 --> 00:32:25.670
I'm sticking with that

971
00:32:27.430 --> 00:32:27.530
Well,

972
00:32:27.609 --> 00:32:28.630
I don't wanna get you in trouble.

973
00:32:29.780 --> 00:32:30.060
Yeah,

974
00:32:30.300 --> 00:32:30.800
too bad.

975
00:32:31.339 --> 00:32:32.260
I stand by the claim.

976
00:32:32.300 --> 00:32:32.930
I think it's right,

977
00:32:33.339 --> 00:32:34.849
because think about the symposium.

978
00:32:35.180 --> 00:32:35.780
It's about love,

979
00:32:35.859 --> 00:32:37.219
but it's also about learning.

980
00:32:37.859 --> 00:32:39.439
And if there isn't kind of something.

981
00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:41.839
If you can't love to learn,

982
00:32:42.069 --> 00:32:42.569
then

983
00:32:42.869 --> 00:32:43.000
yeah,

984
00:32:43.150 --> 00:32:45.229
it's why I don't teach chronologically in the human event,

985
00:32:45.310 --> 00:32:46.130
I think you have to start

986
00:32:46.550 --> 00:32:47.489
with loving learning,

987
00:32:47.630 --> 00:32:49.030
so I start with symposium

988
00:32:49.189 --> 00:32:50.449
and then go somewhere else.

989
00:32:50.800 --> 00:32:52.040
It's the first symposium,

990
00:32:52.229 --> 00:32:52.770
it is.

991
00:32:54.109 --> 00:32:54.579
One of the things that,

992
00:32:54.589 --> 00:32:55.969
if I may just kind of say,

993
00:32:56.150 --> 00:32:58.390
one of the things I found really great about this conversation,

994
00:32:58.449 --> 00:33:00.819
and I just would love to have all of you commented on,

995
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:02.839
I was really struck by.

996
00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:07.130
Dean Ramsey talking about the possibility of,

997
00:33:07.229 --> 00:33:09.989
of that nervousness was important to teaching and the,

998
00:33:10.040 --> 00:33:10.959
the kind of fear

999
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:11.280
and,

1000
00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:13.060
and uh it'd be interesting to know

1001
00:33:13.510 --> 00:33:15.719
whether that nervousness is fear of failure or

1002
00:33:15.719 --> 00:33:18.839
whether it's related to the possibility of learning.

1003
00:33:20.180 --> 00:33:21.699
You were maybe just suggesting.

1004
00:33:22.020 --> 00:33:24.959
And I was really struck by what Phoebe said about

1005
00:33:25.650 --> 00:33:25.880
the,

1006
00:33:25.890 --> 00:33:29.180
the being surprised that you were emotional at opening night

1007
00:33:29.180 --> 00:33:31.729
when you're talking about the purpose of being here.

1008
00:33:32.089 --> 00:33:33.020
And I think maybe

1009
00:33:33.260 --> 00:33:33.420
it,

1010
00:33:33.619 --> 00:33:34.479
maybe you could talk first,

1011
00:33:35.140 --> 00:33:35.449
Phoebe.

1012
00:33:35.500 --> 00:33:35.569
I,

1013
00:33:35.650 --> 00:33:35.900
I don't know,

1014
00:33:35.939 --> 00:33:37.300
I don't wanna script it too much,

1015
00:33:37.380 --> 00:33:37.689
but I mean,

1016
00:33:37.739 --> 00:33:38.939
one of the things that's interesting is

1017
00:33:39.130 --> 00:33:42.319
those were really interesting surprises that I think go to the heart of,

1018
00:33:42.369 --> 00:33:42.500
of,

1019
00:33:42.619 --> 00:33:44.280
of in many ways what we're trying to.

1020
00:33:44.660 --> 00:33:48.290
To do here and and maybe you could expand on why were you surprised or

1021
00:33:48.550 --> 00:33:48.890
why,

1022
00:33:48.949 --> 00:33:53.030
why did nervousness come to mind as a sort of uh caught up with the enterprise.

1023
00:33:53.930 --> 00:33:54.050
Well,

1024
00:33:54.130 --> 00:33:55.790
I think initially when I was thinking,

1025
00:33:55.969 --> 00:33:56.170
OK,

1026
00:33:56.209 --> 00:33:57.170
I have to go to opening night,

1027
00:33:57.229 --> 00:33:59.010
it's this very like I have to go,

1028
00:33:59.130 --> 00:34:00.089
I have to get dressed up,

1029
00:34:00.170 --> 00:34:00.770
I have to show up,

1030
00:34:00.849 --> 00:34:01.729
I have to see these people,

1031
00:34:01.810 --> 00:34:02.219
whatever.

1032
00:34:02.449 --> 00:34:03.380
I don't like going out,

1033
00:34:03.650 --> 00:34:03.900
um,

1034
00:34:03.969 --> 00:34:05.280
and so I get there and I'm like,

1035
00:34:05.489 --> 00:34:06.109
oh my friend,

1036
00:34:06.290 --> 00:34:06.959
like oh my gosh,

1037
00:34:06.969 --> 00:34:08.199
and it's touching and I'm like,

1038
00:34:08.409 --> 00:34:08.708
whatever,

1039
00:34:08.770 --> 00:34:09.679
I'm still too cool for this,

1040
00:34:09.728 --> 00:34:09.958
whatever,

1041
00:34:09.969 --> 00:34:10.500
blah blah blah

1042
00:34:10.879 --> 00:34:13.530
and then I'm there and I'm listening to you speak and I'm like,

1043
00:34:13.649 --> 00:34:14.040
you're right,

1044
00:34:14.168 --> 00:34:15.090
this is who we are,

1045
00:34:15.250 --> 00:34:16.389
this is what I want to be.

1046
00:34:16.649 --> 00:34:18.719
I am stressed about this ending

1047
00:34:18.889 --> 00:34:20.728
because I don't know what the next chapter looks like.

1048
00:34:21.090 --> 00:34:23.949
And I know that this is going to impact who I am

1049
00:34:24.129 --> 00:34:26.350
and like the attitude that I come at life with

1050
00:34:26.500 --> 00:34:28.629
and so it's very difficult to like realize

1051
00:34:28.929 --> 00:34:30.208
this is your 2,

1052
00:34:30.370 --> 00:34:32.500
I have 1 more and then I'm out so

1053
00:34:32.728 --> 00:34:33.610
I need to cherish this.

1054
00:34:33.649 --> 00:34:36.290
I need to experience this fully and so it's that emotional.

1055
00:34:36.364 --> 00:34:36.784
Like

1056
00:34:37.074 --> 00:34:39.004
concept of I'm returning home and I'm coming

1057
00:34:39.004 --> 00:34:41.405
back to this place that's safe and welcoming and

1058
00:34:41.563 --> 00:34:42.445
beautiful and so

1059
00:34:42.614 --> 00:34:44.563
I just expected I'm showing up to this event I

1060
00:34:44.563 --> 00:34:47.063
have to do to go to my school because education

1061
00:34:47.165 --> 00:34:48.304
doesn't always

1062
00:34:48.465 --> 00:34:51.063
have this sensation and I've always loved learning,

1063
00:34:51.245 --> 00:34:51.524
but.

1064
00:34:52.399 --> 00:34:56.760
An institutionalized education doesn't always mean that I am enjoying learning.

1065
00:34:57.939 --> 00:34:58.350
It's more from Foucault,

1066
00:34:58.520 --> 00:34:58.530
right?

1067
00:34:58.810 --> 00:34:58.909
Yeah,

1068
00:34:59.000 --> 00:34:59.439
it's beautiful,

1069
00:34:59.560 --> 00:34:59.629
right?

1070
00:34:59.790 --> 00:35:01.469
I mean gorgeous because what you just said,

1071
00:35:01.600 --> 00:35:01.760
right,

1072
00:35:02.120 --> 00:35:02.320
if,

1073
00:35:02.459 --> 00:35:04.879
if I mean you had an it there that I was trying to track,

1074
00:35:05.020 --> 00:35:05.439
but you were,

1075
00:35:05.600 --> 00:35:05.610
you,

1076
00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:06.070
you meant

1077
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:07.010
the fear of education ending,

1078
00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:08.500
right?

1079
00:35:08.899 --> 00:35:10.820
And that that's what makes you emotional,

1080
00:35:11.149 --> 00:35:11.489
right?

1081
00:35:11.669 --> 00:35:11.760
A little bit,

1082
00:35:12.030 --> 00:35:12.139
yeah,

1083
00:35:12.219 --> 00:35:13.810
and it's this welcome back home and then

1084
00:35:14.149 --> 00:35:16.860
where do I keep learning on my own in my future where I need to be working

1085
00:35:17.989 --> 00:35:18.429
to live,

1086
00:35:18.629 --> 00:35:18.830
right?

1087
00:35:18.949 --> 00:35:21.489
But the part that makes you happy is the fact that

1088
00:35:21.550 --> 00:35:23.629
you kind of know that education isn't going to end.

1089
00:35:24.830 --> 00:35:25.110
Right?

1090
00:35:25.330 --> 00:35:27.760
It's that you've been prepared to continue.

1091
00:35:28.300 --> 00:35:28.459
Yeah,

1092
00:35:28.600 --> 00:35:30.239
and Barrett prepares you to

1093
00:35:30.780 --> 00:35:32.379
kind of not do your own research but

1094
00:35:32.580 --> 00:35:32.840
keep

1095
00:35:33.100 --> 00:35:35.459
investigating and keep reading and keep learning and

1096
00:35:35.620 --> 00:35:39.250
realizing as part of the human event there's these books I would never pick up

1097
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:40.620
the City of Ladies ever.

1098
00:35:40.699 --> 00:35:41.600
I have no interest

1099
00:35:41.939 --> 00:35:43.050
and here I am like,

1100
00:35:43.139 --> 00:35:43.689
yeah,

1101
00:35:43.939 --> 00:35:47.360
and this and this other thing and I've got hard opinions about things and I'm

1102
00:35:47.540 --> 00:35:48.520
coming into it and I'm

1103
00:35:48.760 --> 00:35:50.179
interested and so then I go out in the world

1104
00:35:50.179 --> 00:35:51.800
and I learned something in the news and then I.

1105
00:35:52.459 --> 00:35:55.199
Look into it further instead of just accepting things and so

1106
00:35:55.340 --> 00:35:58.580
it's taught me how to live a little bit differently and think differently and

1107
00:35:58.899 --> 00:36:00.879
look into stuff and I really think that's

1108
00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:02.280
of value to me

1109
00:36:02.620 --> 00:36:03.820
and hope to other Barrett students.

1110
00:36:03.860 --> 00:36:05.820
I feel like that's a big part of being a Barrett

1111
00:36:05.820 --> 00:36:08.159
student is learning how to see the world a little differently.

1112
00:36:09.399 --> 00:36:10.080
That's important to me.

1113
00:36:10.129 --> 00:36:11.199
It's not just a valuable thing,

1114
00:36:11.239 --> 00:36:12.120
it's maybe the most valuable.

1115
00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:15.310
Who?

1116
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:16.659
Well,

1117
00:36:17.500 --> 00:36:18.419
I really love

1118
00:36:18.580 --> 00:36:19.179
last

1119
00:36:19.419 --> 00:36:20.379
opening night,

1120
00:36:20.659 --> 00:36:23.419
I had the big responsibility of being a Barrett Minor

1121
00:36:24.179 --> 00:36:24.959
and I had to

1122
00:36:25.100 --> 00:36:26.780
talk in front of all these freshmen

1123
00:36:26.939 --> 00:36:27.879
and give them advice.

1124
00:36:29.479 --> 00:36:30.030
And I remember staying up

1125
00:36:31.250 --> 00:36:31.419
A bit

1126
00:36:31.790 --> 00:36:32.040
late

1127
00:36:32.429 --> 00:36:34.870
the night before and just going through like what can I tell him,

1128
00:36:34.909 --> 00:36:35.409
what can I tell him,

1129
00:36:35.459 --> 00:36:36.110
what can I tell him.

1130
00:36:36.989 --> 00:36:37.500
And

1131
00:36:37.919 --> 00:36:39.270
none of that really mattered.

1132
00:36:39.439 --> 00:36:39.989
Ultimately,

1133
00:36:40.080 --> 00:36:41.860
they just wanted to know that they were gonna be OK

1134
00:36:42.560 --> 00:36:43.000
and that.

1135
00:36:43.689 --> 00:36:44.750
They're gonna have a lot of fun.

1136
00:36:45.169 --> 00:36:45.830
It's gonna be

1137
00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:46.610
challenging,

1138
00:36:46.729 --> 00:36:46.969
but.

1139
00:36:47.659 --> 00:36:49.100
A good kind of challenging.

1140
00:36:49.540 --> 00:36:50.340
They're gonna have.

1141
00:36:51.219 --> 00:36:56.010
A whole brand new experience that they're never going to ever have ever again

1142
00:36:56.469 --> 00:36:57.870
or previously had.

1143
00:36:59.750 --> 00:37:00.949
And it's sort of

1144
00:37:01.189 --> 00:37:03.389
kind of like a dragonfly and amber.

1145
00:37:04.209 --> 00:37:06.669
It sort of cements what Bart is.

1146
00:37:07.350 --> 00:37:08.000
And it

1147
00:37:08.469 --> 00:37:10.030
keeps track of what

1148
00:37:10.389 --> 00:37:11.250
we're trying to do.

1149
00:37:12.050 --> 00:37:14.899
As well as reflecting on what we've done in the past,

1150
00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:18.360
it all sort of coagulates to this really beautiful

1151
00:37:19.179 --> 00:37:19.800
experience.

1152
00:37:21.080 --> 00:37:24.560
I think you're mentoring the thing that Liz does with all the mentors and.

1153
00:37:25.229 --> 00:37:27.459
Is important because I think students expect

1154
00:37:27.989 --> 00:37:29.750
people with my title to say the kinds of things.

1155
00:37:31.510 --> 00:37:31.770
But

1156
00:37:31.909 --> 00:37:32.500
they don't think,

1157
00:37:32.580 --> 00:37:34.110
they think students don't have to say that,

1158
00:37:34.229 --> 00:37:37.469
I think you add a sense of legitimation to what we say.

1159
00:37:38.689 --> 00:37:39.750
I couldn't be more grateful for

1160
00:37:40.810 --> 00:37:42.129
And you say things we can't say.

1161
00:37:44.260 --> 00:37:45.179
For all the things I do know,

1162
00:37:45.260 --> 00:37:45.939
I don't know.

1163
00:37:53.219 --> 00:37:55.399
I get nervous because I really

1164
00:37:55.780 --> 00:37:56.830
to keep myself.

1165
00:37:57.620 --> 00:38:00.520
I've gone to talks not nervous and been terrible.

1166
00:38:01.270 --> 00:38:02.159
I need to,

1167
00:38:02.580 --> 00:38:04.360
I need to remind myself that

1168
00:38:04.820 --> 00:38:06.040
there's a responsibility here,

1169
00:38:06.219 --> 00:38:06.979
you can't just.

1170
00:38:09.080 --> 00:38:10.790
So I promised myself many things.

1171
00:38:11.610 --> 00:38:15.689
I will never go to a human event class without rereading that week,

1172
00:38:16.050 --> 00:38:16.949
the thing that

1173
00:38:17.169 --> 00:38:17.969
I've assigned,

1174
00:38:18.250 --> 00:38:20.010
even if I've read it a gazillion times.

1175
00:38:21.889 --> 00:38:22.060
It,

1176
00:38:22.129 --> 00:38:22.280
it,

1177
00:38:22.449 --> 00:38:22.760
it,

1178
00:38:22.929 --> 00:38:25.129
it's not the first time for me teaching symposium,

1179
00:38:25.169 --> 00:38:27.000
but it's the first time for that class,

1180
00:38:27.409 --> 00:38:27.989
and they

1181
00:38:28.469 --> 00:38:31.080
deserve a professor at his or her best,

1182
00:38:31.570 --> 00:38:34.149
and one of the ways to do that isn't to pretend you know what the text says,

1183
00:38:35.080 --> 00:38:35.810
because you probably don't.

1184
00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:42.399
I taught a really difficult book last semester,

1185
00:38:42.560 --> 00:38:43.030
it was,

1186
00:38:43.040 --> 00:38:45.949
it was a seminar where we read just one book because it was so challenging,

1187
00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:48.239
and it was the 7th time that Barrett,

1188
00:38:48.250 --> 00:38:49.199
that I've taught that book.

1189
00:38:51.510 --> 00:38:54.250
And I was embarrassed about 4 weeks into class thinking

1190
00:38:54.469 --> 00:38:56.830
I wasn't qualified to teach it the 1st 6 times.

1191
00:38:56.909 --> 00:38:59.149
I really kind of get something about it now.

1192
00:39:00.080 --> 00:39:02.689
But I remember kind of feeling that way the other times too.

1193
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:06.959
I love that every kind of Socratic conversation about a book

1194
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:08.659
experiences it so differently,

1195
00:39:09.040 --> 00:39:10.719
and if you've talked about a book a million times,

1196
00:39:10.790 --> 00:39:13.649
you go and you talk to someone else and they say something that you're at first like,

1197
00:39:13.879 --> 00:39:14.030
no,

1198
00:39:14.070 --> 00:39:14.520
and then you're like,

1199
00:39:14.560 --> 00:39:14.909
wait,

1200
00:39:15.080 --> 00:39:15.479
keep going,

1201
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:16.379
tell me more.

1202
00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:17.580
That sounds crazy,

1203
00:39:17.590 --> 00:39:18.000
keep going.

1204
00:39:18.060 --> 00:39:18.969
I wanna hear about this.

1205
00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:20.050
What do you think this is?

1206
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:23.760
Penelope's.

1207
00:39:24.949 --> 00:39:26.350
Those are lovely moments,

1208
00:39:26.790 --> 00:39:27.350
they really are.

1209
00:39:27.979 --> 00:39:29.709
I always feel outraged when people are like,

1210
00:39:29.780 --> 00:39:31.659
I don't know that Barrett is for me or like I'm a

1211
00:39:31.659 --> 00:39:33.820
sophomore and I think I'm just gonna drop it and keep going.

1212
00:39:33.899 --> 00:39:34.310
I'm like,

1213
00:39:34.540 --> 00:39:34.780
how?

1214
00:39:34.860 --> 00:39:35.649
What are you seeing?

1215
00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:36.350
What do you,

1216
00:39:36.469 --> 00:39:37.860
how do you not see what I'm seeing?

1217
00:39:38.219 --> 00:39:38.500
Like

1218
00:39:38.620 --> 00:39:41.520
I can't conceive of not feeling this way

1219
00:39:41.659 --> 00:39:43.340
and I can't conceive of not being part of this.

1220
00:39:44.830 --> 00:39:45.399
blows my mind.

1221
00:39:45.600 --> 00:39:46.760
The comment that makes me smile,

1222
00:39:46.879 --> 00:39:47.840
though I try to hide it,

1223
00:39:47.850 --> 00:39:48.439
is when

1224
00:39:48.989 --> 00:39:49.229
a student will say,

1225
00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:49.360
well,

1226
00:39:49.399 --> 00:39:50.639
I've already read that in

1227
00:39:51.560 --> 00:39:52.320
ID or something,

1228
00:39:52.439 --> 00:39:52.719
I go,

1229
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:52.959
yeah,

1230
00:39:53.060 --> 00:39:53.540
well

1231
00:39:53.959 --> 00:39:54.620
just wait

1232
00:39:56.899 --> 00:39:57.239
because I,

1233
00:39:57.320 --> 00:39:57.879
as I say,

1234
00:39:57.959 --> 00:39:59.149
and you've probably heard me say,

1235
00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:01.560
there's a kind of infinite distance between high

1236
00:40:01.560 --> 00:40:03.739
school and university and it's hard to know

1237
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:06.959
it's an infinite distance and yet somehow it can be bridged,

1238
00:40:06.969 --> 00:40:07.239
but

1239
00:40:08.750 --> 00:40:12.209
Students almost have to experience it before they will believe you,

1240
00:40:12.379 --> 00:40:15.020
because the way of trying to tell them doesn't quite convey to them.

1241
00:40:17.080 --> 00:40:18.870
But maybe that's where the student experience

1242
00:40:19.169 --> 00:40:20.209
when they when.

1243
00:40:21.540 --> 00:40:23.399
Prospective students talk with the current students.

1244
00:40:23.439 --> 00:40:24.520
Maybe that's what helps most.

1245
00:40:24.600 --> 00:40:25.770
It's hard to put in words.

1246
00:40:25.780 --> 00:40:26.040
It is

1247
00:40:26.870 --> 00:40:27.239
like explaining.

1248
00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:29.679
I'm when I spent this semester working in the writing center,

1249
00:40:29.719 --> 00:40:31.959
I was talking to students who were working on the human event essays

1250
00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:32.699
and I'm like.

1251
00:40:33.919 --> 00:40:34.360
Well,

1252
00:40:34.479 --> 00:40:36.639
it's gonna be completely different for you and I can

1253
00:40:36.639 --> 00:40:38.600
help you with your ideas if you talk to me,

1254
00:40:38.939 --> 00:40:39.879
but I wasn't in that class.

1255
00:40:39.959 --> 00:40:41.360
I don't know how this conversation went.

1256
00:40:41.439 --> 00:40:41.560
Yes,

1257
00:40:41.600 --> 00:40:42.159
I read this book,

1258
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:42.560
but

1259
00:40:42.750 --> 00:40:45.250
you're experiencing it differently like I don't know how to help you with that.

1260
00:40:45.479 --> 00:40:46.780
You need to think this through and

1261
00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:47.540
I think

1262
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:49.770
one of the hardest parts at the beginning is them

1263
00:40:50.120 --> 00:40:51.379
developing their own ideas

1264
00:40:51.600 --> 00:40:52.120
and understanding.

1265
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:54.189
That they have a voice in the conversation and

1266
00:40:54.310 --> 00:40:55.550
getting into that because in high school

1267
00:40:55.550 --> 00:40:57.540
it's a completely different way of learning

1268
00:40:57.909 --> 00:40:58.600
but I,

1269
00:40:58.790 --> 00:41:02.070
I don't think I've ever felt so truly challenged until I did the human event

1270
00:41:02.340 --> 00:41:03.649
like that really met my

1271
00:41:03.820 --> 00:41:04.649
abilities

1272
00:41:04.870 --> 00:41:08.020
in a fair way that I really had never achieved before and that was

1273
00:41:08.020 --> 00:41:10.429
really mad because the 5 paragraph essay is not going to do it.

1274
00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:11.419
No,

1275
00:41:11.500 --> 00:41:12.129
it is not.

1276
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:13.929
You're,

1277
00:41:14.439 --> 00:41:14.780
you're

1278
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:16.820
working in the writing center reminds me,

1279
00:41:16.959 --> 00:41:19.860
maybe that is something else that I've liked that Barrett has done here,

1280
00:41:19.879 --> 00:41:21.030
and it did it by necessity,

1281
00:41:21.080 --> 00:41:22.520
but I think we've made a virtue out of it

1282
00:41:22.959 --> 00:41:25.790
is we can't have our own writing center and we can't have our own call

1283
00:41:27.120 --> 00:41:27.620
lab

1284
00:41:27.959 --> 00:41:28.449
and

1285
00:41:29.260 --> 00:41:31.100
we can't have our own change maker space,

1286
00:41:31.459 --> 00:41:33.899
but I think we place students in those places,

1287
00:41:34.020 --> 00:41:36.300
I think the fee that I pay to the call lab is important,

1288
00:41:36.459 --> 00:41:36.899
I,

1289
00:41:37.340 --> 00:41:40.219
that Barrett West pays to the call lab is important because.

1290
00:41:41.959 --> 00:41:46.340
The campus is the size where we need to take advantage of what's best of the campus.

1291
00:41:47.209 --> 00:41:49.750
It's small enough that Barrett still feels.

1292
00:41:52.209 --> 00:41:52.929
Like they belong.

1293
00:41:53.010 --> 00:41:54.800
You don't have to wait in line long to get those things.

1294
00:41:55.409 --> 00:41:56.699
Do you work in the call lab as well?

1295
00:41:58.530 --> 00:41:58.540
Um,

1296
00:41:58.669 --> 00:41:58.790
I think I was invited,

1297
00:41:58.810 --> 00:41:59.520
but Elizabeth Livingston.

1298
00:42:00.330 --> 00:42:00.699
Yes.

1299
00:42:01.169 --> 00:42:02.169
Are you a lab person?

1300
00:42:03.939 --> 00:42:04.870
But I think that's important.

1301
00:42:05.030 --> 00:42:06.620
So those that integration,

1302
00:42:06.629 --> 00:42:09.030
I think is essential to what we do and that's special

1303
00:42:09.030 --> 00:42:11.780
to West and the majority of the writing center is Barrett,

1304
00:42:11.790 --> 00:42:12.750
even like into the

1305
00:42:13.489 --> 00:42:14.110
like front desk,

1306
00:42:14.149 --> 00:42:16.399
like it's the majority of the team.

1307
00:42:16.510 --> 00:42:16.750
So

1308
00:42:17.250 --> 00:42:18.810
that's really magical and I think that has a big impact on

1309
00:42:18.810 --> 00:42:21.110
the rest of the student body getting to work with Barrett students.

1310
00:42:22.629 --> 00:42:22.709
No,

1311
00:42:22.790 --> 00:42:26.469
that's what I think the college has to do is make sure that it's not so.

1312
00:42:27.489 --> 00:42:28.429
Insular that

1313
00:42:28.530 --> 00:42:28.860
or

1314
00:42:29.030 --> 00:42:29.830
that it doesn't

1315
00:42:29.979 --> 00:42:31.649
give back to the campus and that's one way.

1316
00:42:32.449 --> 00:42:35.810
I think we do it by having Barrett lead non Barrett student groups.

1317
00:42:37.520 --> 00:42:39.320
They're usually the class president on campus,

1318
00:42:39.439 --> 00:42:39.520
right?

1319
00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:41.800
Oh

1320
00:42:43.139 --> 00:42:45.000
And I think it's also really cool that I mean

1321
00:42:45.219 --> 00:42:48.379
the compound at Barrett at Tempe is really magical and

1322
00:42:48.580 --> 00:42:50.060
like a beautiful place to experience,

1323
00:42:50.139 --> 00:42:50.840
but I think it's

1324
00:42:51.219 --> 00:42:52.780
completely different that we don't have our

1325
00:42:52.780 --> 00:42:54.689
own isolated space beyond the Barrett Suite.

1326
00:42:54.780 --> 00:42:57.719
We go out and we're with everyone and we're in classes and we're

1327
00:42:58.100 --> 00:43:00.939
like interacting even in the dorms during first year

1328
00:43:00.939 --> 00:43:02.979
we're doing human event essays in one of the

1329
00:43:03.179 --> 00:43:03.560
like

1330
00:43:03.699 --> 00:43:06.709
common rooms with normal students around us and we're like.

1331
00:43:07.419 --> 00:43:10.149
Freaking out at midnight with everybody as a normal person,

1332
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:10.739
so yeah,

1333
00:43:11.030 --> 00:43:11.340
it

1334
00:43:11.530 --> 00:43:13.659
has a completely different feel like you feel

1335
00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:15.500
different but not

1336
00:43:15.879 --> 00:43:19.060
any you separated and so it's kind of that special like we're still

1337
00:43:19.479 --> 00:43:20.659
with everyone else

1338
00:43:20.919 --> 00:43:21.679
and it's interesting.

1339
00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:22.699
It's humanizing,

1340
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:23.959
yeah it's lovely.

1341
00:43:24.899 --> 00:43:26.340
It kinda keeps us grounded a little bit.

1342
00:43:28.610 --> 00:43:31.489
And it helps dispel some of the misconceptions about honors education.

1343
00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:34.010
A lot of people don't understand what it means

1344
00:43:35.590 --> 00:43:37.709
Some of my favorite things are when Barrett's students are

1345
00:43:37.820 --> 00:43:40.989
dating non-Barrett students and then the non-Barrett student says I.

1346
00:43:42.310 --> 00:43:42.469
Right,

1347
00:43:42.629 --> 00:43:44.250
because they bring them to events and so on.

1348
00:43:44.590 --> 00:43:45.469
That's a pretty cool gig.

1349
00:43:45.659 --> 00:43:45.909
I'm like,

1350
00:43:45.989 --> 00:43:46.820
I wanna do that.

1351
00:43:47.389 --> 00:43:49.379
So I think we're gonna get 3 of those in the current

1352
00:43:50.469 --> 00:43:51.350
batch of applications.

1353
00:43:51.510 --> 00:43:52.370
I think that's lovely.

1354
00:43:52.590 --> 00:43:53.550
That's a cool way to recruit.

1355
00:43:54.429 --> 00:43:58.100
We have a lot of students that don't really get what it means and I'm like,

1356
00:43:58.110 --> 00:43:59.290
why aren't you in Barrett?

1357
00:43:59.310 --> 00:44:00.229
Like I've met you,

1358
00:44:00.310 --> 00:44:01.070
the way you work,

1359
00:44:01.149 --> 00:44:02.270
the way you approach education,

1360
00:44:02.310 --> 00:44:02.969
you belong

1361
00:44:03.110 --> 00:44:03.510
here

1362
00:44:03.669 --> 00:44:04.219
and they're like,

1363
00:44:04.429 --> 00:44:05.070
what's a Barrett?

1364
00:44:05.149 --> 00:44:05.510
OK,

1365
00:44:05.590 --> 00:44:06.189
I'll take this.

1366
00:44:06.310 --> 00:44:07.129
Tell me more.

1367
00:44:07.850 --> 00:44:08.669
I'm excited about that.

1368
00:44:09.620 --> 00:44:10.840
My own apprehension about

1369
00:44:11.090 --> 00:44:12.979
speaking and teaching reminds me that.

1370
00:44:13.879 --> 00:44:14.570
You asked

1371
00:44:14.689 --> 00:44:15.080
earlier,

1372
00:44:15.129 --> 00:44:15.979
I thought about.

1373
00:44:18.120 --> 00:44:19.949
Some challenges of being the dean,

1374
00:44:19.959 --> 00:44:20.399
and

1375
00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:22.760
that's one of the challenges is I think.

1376
00:44:24.209 --> 00:44:26.409
Many students who come to Barrett at the West

1377
00:44:26.409 --> 00:44:28.780
Campus despite the decision of the admissions committee.

1378
00:44:29.530 --> 00:44:30.449
Wonder if they belong.

1379
00:44:31.879 --> 00:44:34.090
And their nervousness isn't a good kind of nervous,

1380
00:44:34.250 --> 00:44:35.110
the kind of

1381
00:44:35.530 --> 00:44:38.870
apprehension and and excitement I have before I go teach

1382
00:44:39.169 --> 00:44:40.260
isn't the kind of stress,

1383
00:44:40.370 --> 00:44:40.969
like they're under,

1384
00:44:41.090 --> 00:44:43.000
they're under one that I think is more damaging,

1385
00:44:43.010 --> 00:44:45.429
and I think that's an important role that the Dean can play

1386
00:44:45.810 --> 00:44:50.149
um in many ways by also having mentors who assure them in all kinds of other

1387
00:44:50.449 --> 00:44:50.969
ways.

1388
00:44:51.780 --> 00:44:52.699
It's to say yes,

1389
00:44:52.739 --> 00:44:53.300
you belong.

1390
00:44:54.310 --> 00:44:55.719
Which doesn't mean it isn't challenging.

1391
00:44:55.760 --> 00:44:56.479
If you're challenged,

1392
00:44:56.560 --> 00:44:57.719
that doesn't mean you don't belong,

1393
00:44:57.800 --> 00:44:59.080
that's not the marker,

1394
00:44:59.370 --> 00:45:00.659
and I think sometimes they,

1395
00:45:00.889 --> 00:45:01.219
they

1396
00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:04.520
treat things as evidence for not belonging that isn't,

1397
00:45:04.600 --> 00:45:05.800
it's just part of what

1398
00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:07.659
it means to do the,

1399
00:45:08.040 --> 00:45:09.159
the challenging work of.

1400
00:45:10.080 --> 00:45:11.139
Reading a primary text,

1401
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:12.040
writing about it in.

1402
00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:14.600
Those things are difficult for all of us.

1403
00:45:16.879 --> 00:45:17.439
So that.

1404
00:45:18.459 --> 00:45:19.280
Is another

1405
00:45:19.790 --> 00:45:22.500
thing that I want us to be here to be really.

1406
00:45:23.370 --> 00:45:23.939
Keen

1407
00:45:24.330 --> 00:45:25.070
to notice,

1408
00:45:25.350 --> 00:45:25.760
um,

1409
00:45:25.889 --> 00:45:26.550
and work

1410
00:45:27.129 --> 00:45:27.540
in

1411
00:45:27.929 --> 00:45:29.649
various ways to overcome that.

1412
00:45:30.129 --> 00:45:31.330
This shouldn't be a stressful thing.

1413
00:45:32.429 --> 00:45:37.330
And I think it's hard because not every honor student is necessarily good in areas of

1414
00:45:37.330 --> 00:45:39.689
writing and communicating and so they walk into

1415
00:45:39.689 --> 00:45:42.070
this very philosophical class and they're like,

1416
00:45:42.090 --> 00:45:43.350
I can do math real good.

1417
00:45:43.570 --> 00:45:45.929
What are you talking to me about Plato for like

1418
00:45:45.929 --> 00:45:47.719
and so that can be really hard and they're like,

1419
00:45:47.729 --> 00:45:48.729
I don't know what I'm saying.

1420
00:45:48.804 --> 00:45:50.885
There's 3 kids that are talking because they're into it,

1421
00:45:51.165 --> 00:45:51.435
um,

1422
00:45:51.524 --> 00:45:54.024
and so I think that's a really cool space for them to kind of

1423
00:45:54.445 --> 00:45:56.314
figure it out and find that time,

1424
00:45:56.324 --> 00:45:56.745
but

1425
00:45:56.995 --> 00:45:58.274
I very distinctly remember,

1426
00:45:58.284 --> 00:46:00.824
I think Doctor Gruber talking to a group of us and saying,

1427
00:46:01.284 --> 00:46:01.834
you're here,

1428
00:46:01.925 --> 00:46:02.754
we picked you,

1429
00:46:02.965 --> 00:46:03.594
you're here,

1430
00:46:03.764 --> 00:46:04.245
you're here,

1431
00:46:04.324 --> 00:46:04.804
we picked you,

1432
00:46:04.844 --> 00:46:05.455
and we're like,

1433
00:46:06.004 --> 00:46:06.324
OK,

1434
00:46:06.485 --> 00:46:07.544
like maybe,

1435
00:46:07.685 --> 00:46:08.084
perhaps,

1436
00:46:08.125 --> 00:46:08.685
but yeah,

1437
00:46:08.794 --> 00:46:10.084
it's a very stressful like.

1438
00:46:10.659 --> 00:46:13.780
You're setting your own expectations and the college isn't

1439
00:46:13.780 --> 00:46:16.060
saying you're not doing enough but you're feeling it

1440
00:46:16.179 --> 00:46:19.469
and so it's kind of overcoming that that makes you find your place here

1441
00:46:19.780 --> 00:46:21.739
I think that's part of figuring out if this is.

1442
00:46:23.139 --> 00:46:23.580
It's really good.

1443
00:46:23.909 --> 00:46:24.360
I'm gonna

1444
00:46:24.540 --> 00:46:24.820
do one.

1445
00:46:24.899 --> 00:46:25.300
I'm gonna,

1446
00:46:25.459 --> 00:46:26.100
this has worked so far,

1447
00:46:26.139 --> 00:46:27.260
so I'm gonna try this one more time.

1448
00:46:28.030 --> 00:46:29.899
And so one of the things I hear kind of connected.

1449
00:46:30.510 --> 00:46:33.989
In an interesting way here is a relationship between peer mentoring.

1450
00:46:36.110 --> 00:46:36.129
Doctor,

1451
00:46:36.179 --> 00:46:38.780
you could talk a little bit about the history of peer mentoring,

1452
00:46:38.790 --> 00:46:39.300
mentoring,

1453
00:46:39.310 --> 00:46:39.550
and

1454
00:46:39.870 --> 00:46:43.830
probably this is a process of discovering this is a useful thing for this campus.

1455
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:44.860
But,

1456
00:46:44.909 --> 00:46:45.989
but maybe you,

1457
00:46:46.030 --> 00:46:46.290
Phoebe,

1458
00:46:46.310 --> 00:46:49.030
and Maggie could talk about how that's been important for you and how

1459
00:46:49.270 --> 00:46:50.360
it's important for you to,

1460
00:46:50.469 --> 00:46:54.929
to kind of like the other thing I think kind of I hear connected to peer mentoring

1461
00:46:55.149 --> 00:46:56.199
is this question of,

1462
00:46:56.399 --> 00:46:56.590
uh,

1463
00:46:56.659 --> 00:46:58.260
am I in this community and how,

1464
00:46:58.469 --> 00:47:01.090
how do you kind of recognize that you're in it and become

1465
00:47:01.389 --> 00:47:03.810
part of this idea that it's a contagious feeling

1466
00:47:04.229 --> 00:47:07.669
of being enthusiastic about it through your peers as well as your,

1467
00:47:07.830 --> 00:47:08.610
your teachers.

1468
00:47:09.120 --> 00:47:12.120
And so maybe talk a little bit about how peer mentoring and,

1469
00:47:12.370 --> 00:47:15.080
and feeling like you're part of something

1470
00:47:15.290 --> 00:47:16.840
is also part of kind of the,

1471
00:47:16.929 --> 00:47:20.020
the startup field that's still part of West Campus.

1472
00:47:20.370 --> 00:47:22.649
Because I think that that's all part of the history here.

1473
00:47:23.379 --> 00:47:23.909
It's a,

1474
00:47:24.030 --> 00:47:25.909
it's a great question in many senses,

1475
00:47:26.229 --> 00:47:27.169
but it also

1476
00:47:27.709 --> 00:47:28.860
reminds us that.

1477
00:47:30.449 --> 00:47:31.179
The this

1478
00:47:33.129 --> 00:47:35.560
Charge to carry out the Barrett mission with a little bit of

1479
00:47:35.560 --> 00:47:39.110
autonomy is important because Dean Herman had already had mentoring forever,

1480
00:47:39.489 --> 00:47:39.659
right,

1481
00:47:39.729 --> 00:47:42.280
and was running this incredibly successful thing in Tempe.

1482
00:47:42.689 --> 00:47:44.110
We realized we needed it,

1483
00:47:44.479 --> 00:47:45.530
but we needed to,

1484
00:47:45.969 --> 00:47:47.330
to do our version of it

1485
00:47:47.489 --> 00:47:48.909
and I think that that

1486
00:47:49.530 --> 00:47:51.290
our version of it is probably what you're

1487
00:47:51.290 --> 00:47:53.570
going to hear at downtown and at Polytechnic,

1488
00:47:53.689 --> 00:47:53.870
right?

1489
00:47:54.010 --> 00:47:54.310
It's.

1490
00:47:55.169 --> 00:47:56.770
Barrett allowed to do our version of it,

1491
00:47:56.889 --> 00:47:58.850
so Liz Marini has done an extraordinary job,

1492
00:47:58.889 --> 00:47:59.310
I think,

1493
00:47:59.439 --> 00:47:59.929
of being.

1494
00:48:00.889 --> 00:48:01.989
Staff advisor to

1495
00:48:04.350 --> 00:48:07.379
Because she trains the mentors and professionalizes them,

1496
00:48:07.550 --> 00:48:09.320
you go through a lot of work to be a mentor,

1497
00:48:09.510 --> 00:48:10.889
and it's a wholly volunteer,

1498
00:48:11.629 --> 00:48:11.909
yes,

1499
00:48:12.310 --> 00:48:12.580
um,

1500
00:48:12.830 --> 00:48:15.750
but there are weekends set aside where they're with one

1501
00:48:15.750 --> 00:48:18.370
another and do all kinds of team building exercises and

1502
00:48:19.030 --> 00:48:20.250
because we want the mentor

1503
00:48:20.600 --> 00:48:22.250
not to just be someone who wants to do it,

1504
00:48:22.270 --> 00:48:23.570
but has been trained to do it,

1505
00:48:23.830 --> 00:48:24.989
and I think that's really.

1506
00:48:25.899 --> 00:48:27.919
And we link that then with

1507
00:48:28.139 --> 00:48:30.110
the Barrett student request of

1508
00:48:30.300 --> 00:48:30.899
the Dean.

1509
00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:34.350
That they didn't want to do ASU 101 anymore,

1510
00:48:34.469 --> 00:48:36.429
they wanted a Barrett version of ASU 101,

1511
00:48:36.550 --> 00:48:38.199
so we do that on our campus

1512
00:48:38.590 --> 00:48:42.169
and we allow the mentors a place in that class.

1513
00:48:43.409 --> 00:48:45.139
2 and 3 times a semester as I recall.

1514
00:48:46.580 --> 00:48:47.810
And I think that helps.

1515
00:48:49.979 --> 00:48:50.189
Great.

1516
00:48:50.290 --> 00:48:51.889
So I want to hear you two talk about that.

1517
00:48:52.010 --> 00:48:54.010
So you're both are mentors or you're no,

1518
00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:54.330
OK.

1519
00:48:54.750 --> 00:48:55.110
But you were mentors,

1520
00:48:55.120 --> 00:48:56.040
but you could talk about it.

1521
00:48:56.250 --> 00:48:56.909
You were mentors,

1522
00:48:56.969 --> 00:48:57.169
right?

1523
00:48:57.370 --> 00:48:57.649
Yeah.

1524
00:48:59.129 --> 00:49:00.010
Would you like to go first?

1525
00:49:00.139 --> 00:49:00.570
Go for it,

1526
00:49:00.580 --> 00:49:01.820
from the experience of the mentor.

1527
00:49:02.669 --> 00:49:04.669
I personally love the mentoring program.

1528
00:49:04.709 --> 00:49:07.750
It's probably the best decision I've made in college.

1529
00:49:08.479 --> 00:49:10.100
It's taught me how to socialize.

1530
00:49:11.179 --> 00:49:12.199
And it's taught me,

1531
00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:15.120
I've actually every every mentor is my friend.

1532
00:49:16.189 --> 00:49:16.639
And

1533
00:49:16.919 --> 00:49:18.580
we're so close and this

1534
00:49:18.959 --> 00:49:19.879
team that we've built.

1535
00:49:21.929 --> 00:49:22.550
It's gonna

1536
00:49:22.729 --> 00:49:24.649
go on past the mentoring program.

1537
00:49:24.689 --> 00:49:26.689
We're gonna meet up next semester and

1538
00:49:27.050 --> 00:49:27.889
every month and.

1539
00:49:28.659 --> 00:49:29.419
Reconnect,

1540
00:49:29.899 --> 00:49:30.439
but it's.

1541
00:49:31.830 --> 00:49:34.189
Forced me out of my shell because I've.

1542
00:49:35.129 --> 00:49:36.989
Actually have to go up and talk to people,

1543
00:49:37.520 --> 00:49:38.010
which

1544
00:49:38.129 --> 00:49:39.810
I was never really comfortable doing.

1545
00:49:40.540 --> 00:49:41.310
And so

1546
00:49:42.219 --> 00:49:43.040
I remember

1547
00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:44.179
going to the gym

1548
00:49:44.379 --> 00:49:45.479
and seeing,

1549
00:49:45.979 --> 00:49:47.860
trying really hard to go up and talk to people

1550
00:49:47.860 --> 00:49:49.659
but not really having the courage to do it.

1551
00:49:50.570 --> 00:49:51.429
But now,

1552
00:49:51.889 --> 00:49:52.389
I can

1553
00:49:52.530 --> 00:49:54.149
go up to a freshman and start

1554
00:49:54.530 --> 00:49:56.370
introduce them to the suite and introduce them to

1555
00:49:56.370 --> 00:49:59.149
the people who work here and hang around here,

1556
00:49:59.689 --> 00:50:00.070
and I just.

1557
00:50:00.729 --> 00:50:02.550
I love being able to connect with the freshmen,

1558
00:50:03.050 --> 00:50:05.870
and I love being able to connect with other Barrett mentors,

1559
00:50:06.489 --> 00:50:06.939
because

1560
00:50:07.250 --> 00:50:09.949
we have a lot more in common than we initially realized.

1561
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:13.199
And I think it's a really great way to humanize everybody.

1562
00:50:13.870 --> 00:50:15.919
Your MIM event is one of the first things you did as a mentor,

1563
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:16.580
right?

1564
00:50:17.850 --> 00:50:20.110
And then one of the last thing you did was get on stage and.

1565
00:50:21.520 --> 00:50:22.739
Do a mashup for lip sync.

1566
00:50:23.500 --> 00:50:25.070
That's a long way from not wanting to talk to anyone.

1567
00:50:26.649 --> 00:50:26.679
That's.

1568
00:50:28.929 --> 00:50:29.239
Um,

1569
00:50:29.409 --> 00:50:30.790
I think from my own experience.

1570
00:50:32.409 --> 00:50:32.929
Uh

1571
00:50:33.250 --> 00:50:34.310
mentors.

1572
00:50:35.379 --> 00:50:37.429
People that I spotted all the time

1573
00:50:37.659 --> 00:50:39.860
and so those are the students that I see the

1574
00:50:39.860 --> 00:50:42.560
most around the suite and out and about and I'm like

1575
00:50:43.010 --> 00:50:45.540
they're the most involved students just generally and

1576
00:50:45.540 --> 00:50:47.659
I don't know if that is a product or

1577
00:50:48.020 --> 00:50:48.659
whatnot but.

1578
00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:51.879
It was really significant because I was able to

1579
00:50:51.879 --> 00:50:54.080
pick up on names of those people and then I

1580
00:50:54.080 --> 00:50:56.399
had people to talk to freshman year that I could

1581
00:50:56.399 --> 00:50:58.699
like spot and it's that idea of walking around West

1582
00:50:58.879 --> 00:51:00.120
I recognize a lot of faces.

1583
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:01.280
I have a lot of classes but

1584
00:51:01.399 --> 00:51:02.879
maybe I don't know everyone's name but I know the

1585
00:51:02.879 --> 00:51:04.959
mentors and they give me a wave and that's.

1586
00:51:05.074 --> 00:51:06.475
A moment when you're a freshman

1587
00:51:06.715 --> 00:51:07.844
and just feeling like,

1588
00:51:07.995 --> 00:51:08.395
oh,

1589
00:51:08.554 --> 00:51:09.574
this is my

1590
00:51:09.794 --> 00:51:11.594
foot in the door of this community is to meet

1591
00:51:11.594 --> 00:51:14.014
this person that will have a conversation with me first

1592
00:51:14.235 --> 00:51:16.635
because a lot of the freshmen didn't really talk to each other even

1593
00:51:16.794 --> 00:51:18.185
because we're like scared and we're like,

1594
00:51:18.195 --> 00:51:21.074
I don't know who you are and you can't really tell who the freshmen are and it's.

1595
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:23.189
It's just really magical to have

1596
00:51:23.350 --> 00:51:24.949
that connection immediately and they

1597
00:51:25.189 --> 00:51:25.540
tell you,

1598
00:51:25.620 --> 00:51:26.030
oh yeah,

1599
00:51:26.110 --> 00:51:28.350
this teacher and that teacher and this human event and

1600
00:51:28.590 --> 00:51:31.870
it's gonna be hard and you just have to do it and it's fine and just continue and

1601
00:51:32.189 --> 00:51:33.510
you're gonna enjoy it or maybe not.

1602
00:51:33.550 --> 00:51:35.629
I don't know if you're talking to someone that's a

1603
00:51:35.629 --> 00:51:37.560
science major they're probably like it sucks and you're like,

1604
00:51:37.629 --> 00:51:37.739
no,

1605
00:51:37.790 --> 00:51:38.050
no,

1606
00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:38.750
tell me more.

1607
00:51:38.949 --> 00:51:39.949
Wait till we get to Lucretius that's what I thought.

1608
00:51:43.709 --> 00:51:44.850
Interesting because

1609
00:51:45.110 --> 00:51:49.090
that's the most real talk you can have about Barrett when you first get in

1610
00:51:49.270 --> 00:51:52.050
is when you're talking to a mentor because everyone else is very

1611
00:51:52.229 --> 00:51:54.389
formal and like meeting you you're not gonna say

1612
00:51:54.750 --> 00:51:55.669
so what's the scoop?

1613
00:51:55.790 --> 00:51:56.449
Tell me more

1614
00:51:56.649 --> 00:51:57.010
um

1615
00:51:57.149 --> 00:51:59.510
but when you get those mentors kind of out of

1616
00:51:59.510 --> 00:52:01.209
the way of all the adults and you're kind of like

1617
00:52:01.590 --> 00:52:02.469
what's the truth?

1618
00:52:02.510 --> 00:52:05.989
Tell me what we're into because I don't really understand what this is yet and

1619
00:52:06.350 --> 00:52:08.790
so that's kind of the behind the scenes little peek

1620
00:52:08.790 --> 00:52:10.689
into this is what it's gonna be like and.

1621
00:52:12.050 --> 00:52:13.129
How did you find

1622
00:52:13.610 --> 00:52:15.729
the courage to start hanging out in the suite?

1623
00:52:16.439 --> 00:52:18.610
I know freshmen sometimes feel as if.

1624
00:52:19.629 --> 00:52:22.060
Spots have already been claimed or something and.

1625
00:52:23.429 --> 00:52:25.550
There's a little bit of an attitude of like

1626
00:52:25.830 --> 00:52:27.790
you walk into a space and someone walks in and sees you

1627
00:52:27.790 --> 00:52:29.909
and leaves cause they don't wanna like take up your space,

1628
00:52:29.989 --> 00:52:30.330
but

1629
00:52:30.669 --> 00:52:33.969
I enjoy working in a public space where there's a kind of.

1630
00:52:34.770 --> 00:52:36.729
Not like straight conversation to me but kind

1631
00:52:36.729 --> 00:52:38.669
of ambient noises happening and so that really

1632
00:52:38.810 --> 00:52:40.149
works for my type of

1633
00:52:40.449 --> 00:52:41.209
skills and so

1634
00:52:41.449 --> 00:52:45.110
it was nice to be able to come here and have people around and like

1635
00:52:45.449 --> 00:52:46.189
hey Sasha,

1636
00:52:46.290 --> 00:52:47.510
hey what's up just

1637
00:52:47.649 --> 00:52:49.229
checking in with a bunch of people and

1638
00:52:49.530 --> 00:52:51.449
be able to pass people you recognize but

1639
00:52:51.810 --> 00:52:55.669
I think getting over intimidation was kind of just getting to know people and I don't

1640
00:52:55.669 --> 00:52:58.810
know that I really got into that until the end of freshman year or the beginning of

1641
00:52:58.989 --> 00:52:59.570
this year.

1642
00:53:00.010 --> 00:53:00.479
Um,

1643
00:53:00.489 --> 00:53:02.560
but it's kind of just a matter of figuring out

1644
00:53:02.810 --> 00:53:03.219
this is

1645
00:53:03.330 --> 00:53:03.790
my

1646
00:53:04.129 --> 00:53:05.120
thing that I'm a part of,

1647
00:53:05.209 --> 00:53:06.209
this is my space,

1648
00:53:06.530 --> 00:53:08.800
and it's not just something that's exclusive for me,

1649
00:53:08.810 --> 00:53:11.070
and I think that's something maybe needs to be

1650
00:53:11.520 --> 00:53:13.780
directly said to the freshmen because it's kind of hard to,

1651
00:53:15.729 --> 00:53:15.840
yeah,

1652
00:53:15.850 --> 00:53:16.250
in the morning,

1653
00:53:16.389 --> 00:53:16.399
absolutely,

1654
00:53:17.409 --> 00:53:17.540
yeah,

1655
00:53:18.600 --> 00:53:18.770
and you use Whitman.

1656
00:53:19.979 --> 00:53:20.500
Were I a student,

1657
00:53:20.580 --> 00:53:22.040
I always think I would be in Kurosawa,

1658
00:53:22.500 --> 00:53:22.860
that would be the.

1659
00:53:24.330 --> 00:53:25.489
And there's students in there too,

1660
00:53:26.050 --> 00:53:27.409
there are types in different places.

1661
00:53:29.419 --> 00:53:31.820
One of the things that I'm really moved by is

1662
00:53:32.040 --> 00:53:33.159
hearing you talk,

1663
00:53:33.219 --> 00:53:34.379
and I was trying

1664
00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:35.179
to be

1665
00:53:35.399 --> 00:53:36.459
mindful of it,

1666
00:53:37.080 --> 00:53:39.080
but you can't have a conversation about what

1667
00:53:39.080 --> 00:53:41.780
we think goes well at Barrett West without

1668
00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:43.659
we've mentioned every staff name

1669
00:53:43.949 --> 00:53:44.790
numerous times,

1670
00:53:44.919 --> 00:53:45.320
right?

1671
00:53:45.879 --> 00:53:48.280
So what Sasha does with the BRC and what Liz does

1672
00:53:48.280 --> 00:53:50.800
with mentors and advising and so on and so on,

1673
00:53:51.159 --> 00:53:52.679
and now that Hannah's been promoted,

1674
00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:53.489
I think her

1675
00:53:53.800 --> 00:53:55.479
role as an advisor is going to be great,

1676
00:53:55.560 --> 00:53:55.879
but

1677
00:53:56.320 --> 00:53:56.739
she was.

1678
00:53:57.530 --> 00:54:00.409
She was extraordinary at the front greeting people

1679
00:54:00.409 --> 00:54:02.110
like she made it a welcoming place,

1680
00:54:02.129 --> 00:54:03.689
and I know that our new person there,

1681
00:54:04.179 --> 00:54:04.669
Sohini will do that.

1682
00:54:06.139 --> 00:54:07.370
I've said in public more than once,

1683
00:54:07.419 --> 00:54:10.500
so I'm happy to go on the oral history record of saying.

1684
00:54:11.959 --> 00:54:11.969
My,

1685
00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:15.239
the staff here at Barrett West is extraordinarily good and a

1686
00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:18.000
lot of their great work gets attributed to me and I don't

1687
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:19.280
wanna pretend that I don't know.

1688
00:54:22.489 --> 00:54:23.189
They're incredible.

1689
00:54:23.449 --> 00:54:24.500
And developing

1690
00:54:24.929 --> 00:54:26.820
individual relationships with all of them as a student,

1691
00:54:26.889 --> 00:54:27.229
like

1692
00:54:27.399 --> 00:54:29.629
bonding with Sasha over art and Harry Potter,

1693
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:30.129
and she's like,

1694
00:54:30.250 --> 00:54:30.360
Hey,

1695
00:54:30.409 --> 00:54:31.929
have you heard of this new watercolor?

1696
00:54:31.969 --> 00:54:32.439
And I'm like,

1697
00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:33.570
How do you know that?

1698
00:54:33.729 --> 00:54:35.270
You'll deal with a million students.

1699
00:54:35.530 --> 00:54:37.929
And Susan with her dresses all the time,

1700
00:54:38.050 --> 00:54:38.449
she's fun.

1701
00:54:39.054 --> 00:54:39.784
Exciting and

1702
00:54:39.985 --> 00:54:42.264
there's really great energy around here and I think they all

1703
00:54:42.264 --> 00:54:44.834
have a completely different personality that we pick up on,

1704
00:54:45.104 --> 00:54:47.004
which is cool because they're the staff like

1705
00:54:47.344 --> 00:54:47.354
we

1706
00:54:47.584 --> 00:54:48.975
we need to respect them and

1707
00:54:49.185 --> 00:54:49.485
like

1708
00:54:49.665 --> 00:54:50.284
they're a certain

1709
00:54:50.544 --> 00:54:51.504
status in this

1710
00:54:52.385 --> 00:54:52.814
experience,

1711
00:54:52.824 --> 00:54:53.185
but

1712
00:54:53.375 --> 00:54:53.784
it's very,

1713
00:54:53.824 --> 00:54:54.254
very different,

1714
00:54:54.264 --> 00:54:54.584
I think.

1715
00:54:55.409 --> 00:54:56.459
I really appreciate it,

1716
00:54:56.600 --> 00:54:57.060
it's cool.

1717
00:55:02.149 --> 00:55:02.550
Well,

1718
00:55:02.669 --> 00:55:03.310
I like college.

1719
00:55:03.929 --> 00:55:03.939
Me

1720
00:55:04.760 --> 00:55:04.770
too.

1721
00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:05.840
It's like a second home.

1722
00:55:06.350 --> 00:55:06.600
It's like quite a lot.

1723
00:55:07.729 --> 00:55:07.909
I'm,

1724
00:55:07.969 --> 00:55:08.889
I'm worried about that.

1725
00:55:09.689 --> 00:55:10.270
Um,

1726
00:55:10.689 --> 00:55:11.100
so,

1727
00:55:11.409 --> 00:55:12.250
the future of Barrett.

1728
00:55:15.129 --> 00:55:17.110
It's it's impossible because we know what

1729
00:55:17.330 --> 00:55:18.830
the future has to be

1730
00:55:18.969 --> 00:55:19.300
to,

1731
00:55:19.580 --> 00:55:20.929
to do what the university wants to do,

1732
00:55:21.010 --> 00:55:21.889
which is to become larger.

1733
00:55:22.739 --> 00:55:25.860
And we know that part of what we like about this is this sauce,

1734
00:55:26.500 --> 00:55:26.919
so

1735
00:55:27.500 --> 00:55:29.570
I think we have to put the kinds of things

1736
00:55:29.570 --> 00:55:32.260
in place that habituate this ethos that we have.

1737
00:55:33.100 --> 00:55:34.969
And be very careful

1738
00:55:35.469 --> 00:55:38.300
when it starts to slip to say how can we have it back,

1739
00:55:38.310 --> 00:55:39.489
even though we have now.

1740
00:55:40.310 --> 00:55:41.649
125 new

1741
00:55:41.909 --> 00:55:43.350
first year students and uh.

1742
00:55:44.300 --> 00:55:45.679
So we went from 40,

1743
00:55:45.729 --> 00:55:47.030
47,

1744
00:55:47.169 --> 00:55:48.969
we used to make those kind of incremental,

1745
00:55:49.169 --> 00:55:49.409
right?

1746
00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:51.790
Then we went to 63,

1747
00:55:52.090 --> 00:55:53.280
then we went to 71,

1748
00:55:53.370 --> 00:55:54.689
then we went to 97,

1749
00:55:55.010 --> 00:55:57.250
and we expect 115 or more next fall.

1750
00:55:57.330 --> 00:55:57.909
So those,

1751
00:55:58.129 --> 00:55:59.250
that changes everything.

1752
00:55:59.729 --> 00:56:00.790
More advising,

1753
00:56:01.090 --> 00:56:02.929
more people in the residential life,

1754
00:56:03.050 --> 00:56:04.889
but that makes Sasha's job more difficult,

1755
00:56:05.010 --> 00:56:05.889
makes the CAA's job,

1756
00:56:05.949 --> 00:56:06.300
etc.

1757
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:06.750
etc.

1758
00:56:07.290 --> 00:56:07.669
So

1759
00:56:08.209 --> 00:56:09.429
the future is.

1760
00:56:10.479 --> 00:56:11.760
I'm glad we're having this conversation.

1761
00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:14.199
It's almost like a focus group for me to think about the future.

1762
00:56:15.389 --> 00:56:16.669
How do we keep the ethos

1763
00:56:17.120 --> 00:56:18.550
and invite more people to join us?

1764
00:56:18.790 --> 00:56:20.149
Because we do want more voices,

1765
00:56:20.229 --> 00:56:20.669
we do want.

1766
00:56:22.610 --> 00:56:25.889
Do think that this is the way to come to the West Campus is to be in there.

1767
00:56:27.909 --> 00:56:29.219
The thing we can't say out loud,

1768
00:56:29.479 --> 00:56:29.959
but it's.

1769
00:56:31.929 --> 00:56:32.330
Confirmed,

1770
00:56:32.370 --> 00:56:32.600
I think,

1771
00:56:32.649 --> 00:56:34.350
at least by your experience and what I.

1772
00:56:35.179 --> 00:56:35.800
Watch happen

1773
00:56:37.639 --> 00:56:39.239
For as challenging as the human event is,

1774
00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:39.899
etc.

1775
00:56:40.270 --> 00:56:43.000
it's easier to be embarratt than not because you have a built-in community,

1776
00:56:43.080 --> 00:56:44.229
you have people caring about you,

1777
00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:46.159
those are the things that retain students

1778
00:56:47.679 --> 00:56:48.969
and we take you seriously as

1779
00:56:49.120 --> 00:56:50.169
people who have ideas.

1780
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:51.199
Mhm.

1781
00:56:52.100 --> 00:56:54.419
Isn't that the best thing about the human event is that

1782
00:56:54.780 --> 00:56:56.800
you couldn't tell your professor what

1783
00:56:57.209 --> 00:56:58.209
she wanted to hear you

1784
00:56:58.620 --> 00:57:00.239
because you don't know what it is,

1785
00:57:00.659 --> 00:57:00.830
right?

1786
00:57:00.969 --> 00:57:02.280
The class isn't like that,

1787
00:57:02.419 --> 00:57:02.649
right?

1788
00:57:03.320 --> 00:57:03.739
There isn't.

1789
00:57:03.810 --> 00:57:04.209
You can't,

1790
00:57:04.340 --> 00:57:05.560
you can't just please them,

1791
00:57:05.699 --> 00:57:05.959
right?

1792
00:57:06.139 --> 00:57:06.820
I love that.

1793
00:57:07.020 --> 00:57:07.659
I love that.

1794
00:57:08.820 --> 00:57:08.830
So,

1795
00:57:09.979 --> 00:57:10.860
and I say to students,

1796
00:57:10.899 --> 00:57:12.760
I'm your ally until you turn your paper in.

1797
00:57:12.860 --> 00:57:14.260
I'll help you write the essay you want,

1798
00:57:14.340 --> 00:57:14.860
but after that,

1799
00:57:14.979 --> 00:57:15.489
then I can't,

1800
00:57:15.580 --> 00:57:15.659
right?

1801
00:57:15.739 --> 00:57:16.689
I have to be someone else.

1802
00:57:17.020 --> 00:57:17.139
The,

1803
00:57:17.260 --> 00:57:18.300
the way the university is set up,

1804
00:57:18.379 --> 00:57:20.239
I have to be someone who then evaluates,

1805
00:57:20.540 --> 00:57:20.899
but

1806
00:57:21.179 --> 00:57:22.959
I'm your ally trying to write whatever

1807
00:57:23.620 --> 00:57:24.860
crazy thesis you want.

1808
00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:28.679
I like that I've directed.

1809
00:57:29.409 --> 00:57:31.540
A handful of honors thesis with which I don't agree.

1810
00:57:32.540 --> 00:57:33.899
I think that's really important

1811
00:57:34.060 --> 00:57:35.500
and I told students from the start.

1812
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:36.479
You,

1813
00:57:36.600 --> 00:57:38.040
I don't think you're gonna be able to persuade me,

1814
00:57:38.120 --> 00:57:39.760
but here's how you would do it if,

1815
00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:40.189
right,

1816
00:57:40.600 --> 00:57:40.750
here,

1817
00:57:41.090 --> 00:57:41.110
here,

1818
00:57:41.120 --> 00:57:43.479
here's the best way to make your terrible argument.

1819
00:57:43.520 --> 00:57:43.530
Yeah,

1820
00:57:44.500 --> 00:57:44.510
um,

1821
00:57:44.719 --> 00:57:45.840
here's the best way to try to,

1822
00:57:45.959 --> 00:57:47.340
to make your side of the case.

1823
00:57:47.600 --> 00:57:47.830
Um,

1824
00:57:47.959 --> 00:57:48.959
I like that.

1825
00:57:50.399 --> 00:57:50.489
Yeah,

1826
00:57:50.600 --> 00:57:50.979
there's there's a goal,

1827
00:57:53.649 --> 00:57:54.429
and I'm sure

1828
00:57:54.530 --> 00:57:54.879
I'm,

1829
00:57:55.010 --> 00:57:55.169
yeah,

1830
00:57:55.330 --> 00:57:55.639
um,

1831
00:57:55.770 --> 00:57:56.510
with one

1832
00:57:56.969 --> 00:57:57.979
now Doctor Kitchen,

1833
00:57:58.050 --> 00:57:58.459
and

1834
00:57:58.810 --> 00:57:59.870
we still have a wonderful

1835
00:58:00.370 --> 00:58:01.370
disagreement about her,

1836
00:58:01.409 --> 00:58:02.090
her thesis.

1837
00:58:04.850 --> 00:58:06.010
That's something that.

1838
00:58:06.750 --> 00:58:08.790
Barrett should pride itself on is that kind.

1839
00:58:09.800 --> 00:58:12.389
Because that is a tolerance in a cheap sense,

1840
00:58:12.520 --> 00:58:13.100
it's

1841
00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:14.840
intellectual engagement where.

1842
00:58:15.729 --> 00:58:17.149
Issues so complicated

1843
00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:17.989
that there are

1844
00:58:18.169 --> 00:58:18.969
arguments all around.

1845
00:58:20.699 --> 00:58:21.810
And she made a good one.

1846
00:58:22.020 --> 00:58:23.090
It just didn't persuade her.

1847
00:58:24.189 --> 00:58:24.639
But

1848
00:58:24.949 --> 00:58:26.010
she should say the same,

1849
00:58:26.629 --> 00:58:27.830
that I've made an OK

1850
00:58:28.040 --> 00:58:28.570
rejoinder,

1851
00:58:28.629 --> 00:58:29.209
but she's

1852
00:58:29.510 --> 00:58:30.389
remains unmoved too,

1853
00:58:30.550 --> 00:58:30.979
so I,

1854
00:58:31.030 --> 00:58:31.750
I think that's fair,

1855
00:58:31.870 --> 00:58:33.189
that's a good standoff on that question.

1856
00:58:34.379 --> 00:58:35.439
We've talked a little bit about

1857
00:58:35.620 --> 00:58:37.379
how proud you are of the ethos we've maintained,

1858
00:58:37.530 --> 00:58:39.409
but if you could see it evolve in any way,

1859
00:58:39.620 --> 00:58:41.659
what would you want it to be in the most ideal?

1860
00:58:47.689 --> 00:58:47.699
challenge.

1861
00:58:48.649 --> 00:58:49.100
It's a challenge.

1862
00:58:52.909 --> 00:58:54.239
To know it's so far from perfect,

1863
00:58:54.320 --> 00:58:55.179
but not know exactly

1864
00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:56.370
what I would change is.

1865
00:58:57.189 --> 00:58:58.070
A damning insight.

1866
00:58:59.479 --> 00:58:59.879
Touche.

1867
00:59:04.139 --> 00:59:05.300
Can I say damning insight?

1868
00:59:05.729 --> 00:59:06.020
You can.

1869
00:59:06.159 --> 00:59:06.479
OK.

1870
00:59:10.530 --> 00:59:11.010
I

1871
00:59:23.419 --> 00:59:24.340
I'm gonna let you think about that.

1872
00:59:24.379 --> 00:59:26.580
I'll throw something in as an observation because I,

1873
00:59:26.620 --> 00:59:27.820
I get the rule here of

1874
00:59:28.139 --> 00:59:28.330
I'm,

1875
00:59:28.379 --> 00:59:28.659
I'm,

1876
00:59:28.780 --> 00:59:30.010
I'm just an outside observer,

1877
00:59:30.060 --> 00:59:33.629
but I mean it's been a wonderful conversation about really about what it means to,

1878
00:59:33.979 --> 00:59:35.729
to be a lifelong learner.

1879
00:59:36.219 --> 00:59:36.820
And you know,

1880
00:59:36.899 --> 00:59:40.199
one of the things I think that's really interesting and again I think

1881
00:59:40.540 --> 00:59:41.699
that all of you are bringing out.

1882
00:59:42.199 --> 00:59:43.989
Is that there's something about

1883
00:59:44.090 --> 00:59:46.929
being maybe an American that resists

1884
00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:48.270
throw going all into

1885
00:59:48.729 --> 00:59:51.199
a kind of intellectual discussion and the

1886
00:59:51.919 --> 00:59:53.429
one of the things I see often is that

1887
00:59:53.770 --> 00:59:57.629
11 of the things that's really important for Barrett is that it tells other

1888
00:59:57.929 --> 00:59:58.290
students,

1889
00:59:58.370 --> 01:00:01.350
other students tell other students it's OK to be intense

1890
01:00:01.649 --> 01:00:02.689
and serious.

1891
01:00:03.590 --> 01:00:03.770
You're right,

1892
01:00:03.810 --> 01:00:05.850
you're all nodding about that like almost instantly,

1893
01:00:05.889 --> 01:00:07.689
like it's like a relief to say that.

1894
01:00:08.179 --> 01:00:08.770
And I,

1895
01:00:08.889 --> 01:00:09.090
I mean,

1896
01:00:09.169 --> 01:00:09.290
I,

1897
01:00:09.370 --> 01:00:11.370
I guess I don't know how that can evolve,

1898
01:00:11.489 --> 01:00:11.679
but,

1899
01:00:11.810 --> 01:00:12.080
but,

1900
01:00:12.409 --> 01:00:14.139
but at least in terms of one of the things that,

1901
01:00:14.209 --> 01:00:16.209
that you brought up Dean Ramsey was like the

1902
01:00:16.370 --> 01:00:18.370
relation to the larger community,

1903
01:00:18.489 --> 01:00:18.810
right?

1904
01:00:19.050 --> 01:00:19.750
I mean,

1905
01:00:19.810 --> 01:00:22.510
how can Barrett play a role in

1906
01:00:22.969 --> 01:00:23.449
um.

1907
01:00:24.439 --> 01:00:28.780
Helping Americans or Arizonans be serious about

1908
01:00:29.129 --> 01:00:29.719
their,

1909
01:00:30.020 --> 01:00:30.530
um,

1910
01:00:30.879 --> 01:00:35.540
intellectuality or about their mission or about their relations to each other,

1911
01:00:35.919 --> 01:00:36.600
more articulate,

1912
01:00:36.649 --> 01:00:37.219
more civil.

1913
01:00:38.399 --> 01:00:38.760
Um,

1914
01:00:38.879 --> 01:00:40.580
because those things I think are really

1915
01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:41.239
central.

1916
01:00:41.959 --> 01:00:42.229
And I mean,

1917
01:00:42.280 --> 01:00:44.620
I don't know if you feel like you're a better citizen

1918
01:00:45.040 --> 01:00:46.659
as part of being in Barrett,

1919
01:00:46.679 --> 01:00:47.419
or if it's

1920
01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:48.399
more like a club,

1921
01:00:48.520 --> 01:00:48.820
but,

1922
01:00:49.120 --> 01:00:53.479
but maybe to think about the civic side of it would be a nice way to end the discussion.

1923
01:00:54.699 --> 01:00:56.439
How does this prepare you for being.

1924
01:00:57.159 --> 01:00:59.280
An American or a citizen in a broader way.

1925
01:01:00.010 --> 01:01:03.830
I do feel like I kind of orient myself to the world in a way that is kind of more

1926
01:01:04.409 --> 01:01:05.850
European and artistic and

1927
01:01:06.290 --> 01:01:06.979
maybe not

1928
01:01:07.090 --> 01:01:09.739
what is purely American and so it is very strange for me to.

1929
01:01:10.600 --> 01:01:13.229
A line that I've always kind of felt like I am really into.

1930
01:01:13.979 --> 01:01:15.239
A lot more of the

1931
01:01:15.959 --> 01:01:19.489
education and art and whatnot that's happening in Europe than what's in America,

1932
01:01:19.699 --> 01:01:22.419
but I think as far as just being more willing to.

1933
01:01:23.290 --> 01:01:26.040
Be open minded and investigative of what's happening.

1934
01:01:26.090 --> 01:01:28.090
I think that would make me a better citizen just.

1935
01:01:29.489 --> 01:01:29.850
By result,

1936
01:01:29.889 --> 01:01:30.129
but

1937
01:01:30.899 --> 01:01:32.679
I can't say that I am more

1938
01:01:33.110 --> 01:01:35.459
blindly supportive of things that are happening in America.

1939
01:01:35.550 --> 01:01:37.199
Like I feel like that makes me a more

1940
01:01:37.310 --> 01:01:38.320
challenging citizen

1941
01:01:38.780 --> 01:01:39.580
than anything else.

1942
01:01:40.679 --> 01:01:40.879
Perhaps,

1943
01:01:40.949 --> 01:01:41.050
yeah.

1944
01:01:42.020 --> 01:01:43.399
So I don't think I'm necessarily

1945
01:01:43.699 --> 01:01:44.459
better or worse.

1946
01:01:50.689 --> 01:01:51.169
in terms?

1947
01:01:51.949 --> 01:01:54.679
I love how Barrett supports and.

1948
01:01:55.750 --> 01:01:58.729
Encourages and stimulates critical thinking

1949
01:01:59.310 --> 01:02:01.080
because that's what my parents have always.

1950
01:02:01.959 --> 01:02:03.229
Brought me up to do.

1951
01:02:03.850 --> 01:02:04.620
And I just

1952
01:02:05.560 --> 01:02:06.530
Love how

1953
01:02:07.350 --> 01:02:09.189
everything that we read in human events

1954
01:02:09.590 --> 01:02:09.989
kind of.

1955
01:02:10.689 --> 01:02:11.469
Even though

1956
01:02:11.969 --> 01:02:12.250
they,

1957
01:02:12.370 --> 01:02:13.949
they come from traditionally

1958
01:02:14.649 --> 01:02:15.149
viewed

1959
01:02:15.350 --> 01:02:16.110
as

1960
01:02:16.449 --> 01:02:17.750
drastically different

1961
01:02:17.929 --> 01:02:19.010
juxtaposing.

1962
01:02:20.120 --> 01:02:20.909
Studies

1963
01:02:21.129 --> 01:02:21.590
like

1964
01:02:21.889 --> 01:02:24.429
Lucretius and then we'll get to Freud and then.

1965
01:02:26.830 --> 01:02:27.409
It's

1966
01:02:27.709 --> 01:02:30.090
amazing how much these authors have in common.

1967
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:31.629
In terms of

1968
01:02:34.360 --> 01:02:34.560
Well,

1969
01:02:34.639 --> 01:02:35.530
you wouldn't even

1970
01:02:35.840 --> 01:02:36.570
begin to

1971
01:02:36.719 --> 01:02:38.159
think of at the very beginning.

1972
01:02:39.229 --> 01:02:39.780
And then

1973
01:02:40.590 --> 01:02:41.669
You can apply these,

1974
01:02:41.750 --> 01:02:42.060
like,

1975
01:02:42.070 --> 01:02:43.449
we're not all

1976
01:02:43.989 --> 01:02:44.570
completely

1977
01:02:44.709 --> 01:02:45.110
different.

1978
01:02:45.270 --> 01:02:47.610
We have so much more in common than most people think.

1979
01:02:47.899 --> 01:02:49.949
Like one of my favorite things to do is think about

1980
01:02:49.949 --> 01:02:52.310
all the ways that chemistry and Shakespeare have in common.

1981
01:02:53.649 --> 01:02:55.290
Surprisingly similar,

1982
01:02:55.770 --> 01:02:56.090
but

1983
01:02:56.300 --> 01:03:00.429
I just love reaching out and thinking of all the different ways we connect because

1984
01:03:01.169 --> 01:03:05.360
that humanizes these studies and then we can further those

1985
01:03:05.770 --> 01:03:09.050
and we can talk to people that we would have never thought about talking to.

1986
01:03:09.340 --> 01:03:11.090
So like a computer science major could talk

1987
01:03:11.090 --> 01:03:12.669
to a communications major and realize that we

1988
01:03:13.929 --> 01:03:17.010
love the same TV shows and we love the same books and the same

1989
01:03:19.370 --> 01:03:19.629
everything.

1990
01:03:20.379 --> 01:03:23.629
And then we can talk to people of different majors and different walks

1991
01:03:23.629 --> 01:03:26.699
of life and get to know them better and feel like we can

1992
01:03:26.899 --> 01:03:27.320
really.

1993
01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:30.320
Commence a really wonderful relationship.

1994
01:03:35.649 --> 01:03:38.750
You both must have been in the 191 where we read the little

1995
01:03:39.169 --> 01:03:41.800
section on what it means to be addicted to study and

1996
01:03:46.639 --> 01:03:47.080
I'm sorry.

1997
01:03:48.409 --> 01:03:48.419
No,

1998
01:03:48.429 --> 01:03:49.350
it's a strange little,

1999
01:03:49.510 --> 01:03:51.659
it's a powerful little piece for being so short.

2000
01:03:51.790 --> 01:03:51.979
Yeah,

2001
01:03:52.229 --> 01:03:53.090
that kind of blew my mind,

2002
01:03:53.360 --> 01:03:55.510
especially as one of the first things that we were doing,

2003
01:03:56.550 --> 01:03:57.590
I always I always wonder if that's too soon.

2004
01:03:58.300 --> 01:03:59.330
That kind of opened up like,

2005
01:03:59.399 --> 01:03:59.669
oh,

2006
01:03:59.790 --> 01:04:00.899
that's who I was in high school.

2007
01:04:01.929 --> 01:04:02.870
I understand how I go through life.

2008
01:04:05.169 --> 01:04:05.500
Critical

2009
01:04:12.040 --> 01:04:14.239
And it leads to that moralistic discussion too,

2010
01:04:14.370 --> 01:04:15.800
because people don't like the word addiction.

2011
01:04:19.379 --> 01:04:19.699
But

2012
01:04:20.510 --> 01:04:21.729
of its use in the piece,

2013
01:04:21.830 --> 01:04:22.030
right,

2014
01:04:22.070 --> 01:04:22.689
is to try to

2015
01:04:23.520 --> 01:04:23.929
Provocation

2016
01:04:26.810 --> 01:04:27.159
OK.

2017
01:04:29.010 --> 01:04:29.530
This is awful.

2018
01:04:29.610 --> 01:04:31.469
I don't know what I want to add to the ethos.

2019
01:04:33.629 --> 01:04:35.169
What about the attitude of the

2020
01:04:38.139 --> 01:04:38.860
Towards us.

2021
01:04:43.100 --> 01:04:45.270
I think we're more or less welcomed,

2022
01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:46.530
more or less,

2023
01:04:46.540 --> 01:04:46.820
most of them.

2024
01:04:48.479 --> 01:04:49.679
We're asked to participate often.

2025
01:04:50.409 --> 01:04:51.189
that we do that.

2026
01:04:51.310 --> 01:04:52.110
I think we share.

2027
01:04:53.489 --> 01:04:54.520
Compared to some other things,

2028
01:04:54.580 --> 01:04:56.000
we have an embarrassment of riches.

2029
01:05:00.979 --> 01:05:02.399
That they don't understand it.

2030
01:05:03.169 --> 01:05:05.260
And I think that we aren't transparently.

2031
01:05:06.159 --> 01:05:07.030
Out on a stage,

2032
01:05:07.050 --> 01:05:09.169
but that's not where we wanna be necessarily and so I

2033
01:05:09.169 --> 01:05:11.429
think it's hard for them to understand what we do because

2034
01:05:11.689 --> 01:05:12.129
we don't.

2035
01:05:13.129 --> 01:05:13.729
Tell everyone.

2036
01:05:14.290 --> 01:05:16.449
In terms of books and so on,

2037
01:05:16.530 --> 01:05:16.679
we,

2038
01:05:16.770 --> 01:05:17.949
I think we do a nice.

2039
01:05:21.239 --> 01:05:23.979
At least we're trying to be conscientious about diversity.

2040
01:05:24.889 --> 01:05:26.860
Our reading list and those kinds of things.

2041
01:05:27.209 --> 01:05:28.770
I think in terms of gender and

2042
01:05:30.100 --> 01:05:30.879
Sexual orientation,

2043
01:05:30.929 --> 01:05:31.340
etc.

2044
01:05:31.540 --> 01:05:33.260
We're doing a nice job on the faculty.

2045
01:05:34.389 --> 01:05:37.510
But clearly if we had a person of color on the faculty,

2046
01:05:37.739 --> 01:05:38.169
that would

2047
01:05:38.709 --> 01:05:39.709
add another kind of.

2048
01:05:40.909 --> 01:05:42.780
Moment to all of this that would be important.

2049
01:05:43.830 --> 01:05:45.709
I know the college changed when we hired.

2050
01:05:47.050 --> 01:05:48.229
Women on the faculty,

2051
01:05:48.530 --> 01:05:48.770
I mean,

2052
01:05:48.850 --> 01:05:50.250
we had no faculty and that

2053
01:05:50.649 --> 01:05:51.020
so.

2054
01:05:51.979 --> 01:05:54.659
I just watching people at the office hour lines and,

2055
01:05:54.959 --> 01:05:55.780
but not for

2056
01:05:56.120 --> 01:05:57.199
human event questions,

2057
01:05:57.239 --> 01:05:57.860
but for

2058
01:05:58.219 --> 01:06:00.540
what it means to be a college student question when you see.

2059
01:06:02.169 --> 01:06:02.790
Successful with

2060
01:06:11.659 --> 01:06:14.459
Despite not having a really good answer to your question,

2061
01:06:14.689 --> 01:06:15.739
which I will.

2062
01:06:16.590 --> 01:06:17.429
Take up in my own thinking,

2063
01:06:17.510 --> 01:06:18.419
I promise you.

2064
01:06:18.830 --> 01:06:19.949
What I do think.

2065
01:06:21.419 --> 01:06:25.800
is important is that I think the ethos is one that's responsive,

2066
01:06:26.610 --> 01:06:27.459
and that helps it.

2067
01:06:27.580 --> 01:06:28.739
So when it really comes up,

2068
01:06:28.820 --> 01:06:29.530
what we need to do,

2069
01:06:29.580 --> 01:06:31.500
I think we're going to be able to hear it,

2070
01:06:32.139 --> 01:06:33.459
even if I don't know what that is.

2071
01:06:34.320 --> 01:06:36.050
And the nature of students is questioning,

2072
01:06:36.129 --> 01:06:37.330
so we're not gonna let anything go.

2073
01:06:37.570 --> 01:06:37.580
You

2074
01:06:38.129 --> 01:06:39.409
people come to my office and make

2075
01:06:39.699 --> 01:06:40.639
reasonable,

2076
01:06:40.649 --> 01:06:41.360
interesting requests,

2077
01:06:41.370 --> 01:06:43.010
and we try to respond to them,

2078
01:06:43.169 --> 01:06:43.560
right?

2079
01:06:43.689 --> 01:06:44.060
I,

2080
01:06:44.370 --> 01:06:45.540
it's how you know.

2081
01:06:45.850 --> 01:06:46.199
Um,

2082
01:06:46.250 --> 01:06:47.629
I don't like guessing

2083
01:06:47.929 --> 01:06:48.850
what students want.

2084
01:06:48.929 --> 01:06:49.989
I'd rather know

2085
01:06:50.159 --> 01:06:50.729
what they think they.

2086
01:06:51.820 --> 01:06:51.830
Yes,

2087
01:06:51.840 --> 01:06:51.850
and

2088
01:06:53.600 --> 01:06:55.679
we have the kinds of things in place to do that,

2089
01:06:56.719 --> 01:06:56.729
right?

2090
01:06:56.739 --> 01:06:57.459
We have talks with the dean,

2091
01:06:57.469 --> 01:06:58.110
um,

2092
01:06:58.120 --> 01:07:00.879
we have those moments where we survey the students and then.

2093
01:07:01.989 --> 01:07:04.810
have that meeting at the end of the year where students can ask

2094
01:07:05.469 --> 01:07:06.030
questions of,

2095
01:07:06.270 --> 01:07:07.590
of the staff and myself.

2096
01:07:09.060 --> 01:07:09.840
So I would say

2097
01:07:10.020 --> 01:07:14.080
the only virtue of my inability to answer is that I do think we're in a position

2098
01:07:14.820 --> 01:07:16.360
to be responsive when we hear.

2099
01:07:17.439 --> 01:07:18.919
What it is the next move has to be.

2100
01:07:21.379 --> 01:07:23.080
Do you have any other things you'd like to mention

2101
01:07:23.080 --> 01:07:23.870
before I don't want it to get to talk about

2102
01:07:28.689 --> 01:07:29.620
what we do with this kind of intensity.

2103
01:07:31.850 --> 01:07:33.409
was flattered to be

2104
01:07:33.879 --> 01:07:34.350
asked.

2105
01:07:34.790 --> 01:07:36.860
I do wanna say some things for the oral history part.

2106
01:07:36.909 --> 01:07:38.929
I do think we have to find Julie's last name.

2107
01:07:39.669 --> 01:07:41.629
We have to talk to Doctor Joseph Ryan.

2108
01:07:41.830 --> 01:07:43.909
We have to think about those kinds of things.

2109
01:07:47.219 --> 01:07:49.629
I also should say when I complimented the staff,

2110
01:07:49.750 --> 01:07:50.649
which is.

2111
01:07:51.879 --> 01:07:54.479
Also the staff who are not heron fan of.

2112
01:07:55.239 --> 01:07:56.800
And here's a nice anecdote.

2113
01:07:57.120 --> 01:07:57.510
Um,

2114
01:07:57.560 --> 01:07:58.500
we had the.

2115
01:08:00.669 --> 01:08:04.570
We had the layout of the suite as it looked before it was the suite.

2116
01:08:06.780 --> 01:08:06.790
Um

2117
01:08:08.209 --> 01:08:08.600
For the record,

2118
01:08:08.649 --> 01:08:10.189
I'm bringing now a diagram of the week.

2119
01:08:10.409 --> 01:08:11.489
Can I take a photo of that when we're done?

2120
01:08:11.610 --> 01:08:12.050
Can do.

2121
01:08:12.770 --> 01:08:13.570
Before it looked like this,

2122
01:08:13.649 --> 01:08:15.310
it looks like the way it did,

2123
01:08:15.570 --> 01:08:15.959
right?

2124
01:08:16.060 --> 01:08:16.250
Um-hum.

2125
01:08:20.799 --> 01:08:21.970
So this is how you come in.

2126
01:08:23.099 --> 01:08:25.377
And there was a huge conference room here,

2127
01:08:25.499 --> 01:08:28.658
so Whitman is knocking down all of those walls and so on.

2128
01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:30.799
But Heron had,

2129
01:08:30.810 --> 01:08:31.330
um,

2130
01:08:31.529 --> 01:08:32.529
I don't know how it's called,

2131
01:08:32.609 --> 01:08:34.669
but it's an erase white tape.

2132
01:08:36.139 --> 01:08:37.328
And every time she would do,

2133
01:08:37.337 --> 01:08:37.608
uh,

2134
01:08:37.688 --> 01:08:38.207
it was

2135
01:08:38.508 --> 01:08:39.618
thousands of dollars.

2136
01:08:39.729 --> 01:08:40.698
It was a wall coming down,

2137
01:08:40.769 --> 01:08:42.457
but every time we moved that pen,

2138
01:08:42.627 --> 01:08:44.318
we knew that we were cutting into the

2139
01:08:44.618 --> 01:08:45.408
budget under we,

2140
01:08:45.499 --> 01:08:45.658
we,

2141
01:08:45.738 --> 01:08:46.688
we had to work,

2142
01:08:47.608 --> 01:08:47.618
um.

2143
01:08:48.470 --> 01:08:49.029
But we,

2144
01:08:49.290 --> 01:08:51.580
we thought about what it meant to sit here.

2145
01:08:52.910 --> 01:08:54.910
Not to look into a conference room which.

2146
01:08:55.419 --> 01:08:55.430
Mhm.

2147
01:08:56.459 --> 01:08:57.149
Bars you,

2148
01:08:57.470 --> 01:09:00.540
but you're a prospective student sitting here waiting for your tour,

2149
01:09:00.830 --> 01:09:04.729
you look out across Whitman and now you're sitting there reading um as you like it.

2150
01:09:06.859 --> 01:09:07.680
You see the

2151
01:09:07.870 --> 01:09:11.569
goings on of the college and it feels like it's a place that's welcoming you.

2152
01:09:11.870 --> 01:09:16.009
So our first move was to take down walls and try to make that space open.

2153
01:09:16.799 --> 01:09:18.339
So the kind of idea of openness,

2154
01:09:19.970 --> 01:09:20.810
and we called it Whitman,

2155
01:09:20.899 --> 01:09:22.009
the poet of democracy.

2156
01:09:24.549 --> 01:09:25.390
I mean this was easy.

2157
01:09:25.509 --> 01:09:26.549
Borges was a librarian.

2158
01:09:27.500 --> 01:09:28.100
But still,

2159
01:09:28.180 --> 01:09:29.640
I thought Whitman wasn't a bad choice,

2160
01:09:29.899 --> 01:09:30.009
no.

2161
01:09:30.970 --> 01:09:32.810
And then we tried to cite his poem,

2162
01:09:32.850 --> 01:09:33.169
the,

2163
01:09:33.240 --> 01:09:34.109
the Open Road,

2164
01:09:34.410 --> 01:09:36.390
and to make it the Whitman open space.

2165
01:09:37.729 --> 01:09:40.569
I thought this poem was great calling Freud the storage closet,

2166
01:09:40.830 --> 01:09:43.080
everything we didn't know what to do with we just stuffed in Freud,

2167
01:09:43.089 --> 01:09:43.100
right?

2168
01:09:45.549 --> 01:09:45.729
So um.

2169
01:09:46.689 --> 01:09:48.490
This is the name that students gave

2170
01:09:48.729 --> 01:09:49.459
to that room,

2171
01:09:49.729 --> 01:09:50.490
so it's nice.

2172
01:09:51.599 --> 01:09:51.999
Uh-huh,

2173
01:09:52.417 --> 01:09:52.548
right,

2174
01:09:52.618 --> 01:09:52.627
right,

2175
01:09:52.639 --> 01:09:52.798
right,

2176
01:09:53.068 --> 01:09:55.659
the Rosalynla room for those listening on audio,

2177
01:09:55.758 --> 01:09:55.878
right,

2178
01:09:56.039 --> 01:09:56.108
right,

2179
01:09:56.199 --> 01:09:56.479
right,

2180
01:09:56.719 --> 01:09:56.798
yeah,

2181
01:09:56.878 --> 01:09:57.219
right.

2182
01:10:00.399 --> 01:10:01.240
Did you get your photo?

2183
01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:01.680
Yeah,

2184
01:10:02.100 --> 01:10:02.399
absolutely.

2185
01:10:02.990 --> 01:10:03.069
Well,

2186
01:10:03.120 --> 01:10:06.100
I think one of the things maybe to comment there is that

2187
01:10:06.680 --> 01:10:09.080
that one of the things that you're underscoring,

2188
01:10:09.120 --> 01:10:11.319
all of you underscored is the importance of,

2189
01:10:11.359 --> 01:10:11.819
of

2190
01:10:12.160 --> 01:10:12.620
having

2191
01:10:13.279 --> 01:10:15.669
the community of Barrett have a space that

2192
01:10:15.799 --> 01:10:20.220
that reflects the idea of community and openness and sharing.

2193
01:10:21.109 --> 01:10:21.310
Right,

2194
01:10:21.430 --> 01:10:21.939
is that

2195
01:10:22.490 --> 01:10:22.890
And.

2196
01:10:24.229 --> 01:10:25.350
You've heard that

2197
01:10:25.569 --> 01:10:29.399
it's been a struggle to get similar spaces elsewhere because the university

2198
01:10:29.939 --> 01:10:32.600
almost feels as if they made a mistake giving us this space,

2199
01:10:33.100 --> 01:10:33.399
but

2200
01:10:33.620 --> 01:10:34.069
I

2201
01:10:34.299 --> 01:10:36.279
couldn't imagine this enterprise working.

2202
01:10:37.020 --> 01:10:38.479
In a certain way without it,

2203
01:10:38.540 --> 01:10:38.700
right,

2204
01:10:38.819 --> 01:10:39.540
it wouldn't be,

2205
01:10:39.979 --> 01:10:42.279
and so when they give me these ideas that

2206
01:10:42.419 --> 01:10:44.060
of how I should redesign the space,

2207
01:10:44.500 --> 01:10:48.660
I don't think they've thought all the way through everything that it does.

2208
01:10:49.910 --> 01:10:51.669
I think John Dewey causes collateral learning,

2209
01:10:51.750 --> 01:10:51.910
right?

2210
01:10:51.959 --> 01:10:53.350
It's the learning that happens.

2211
01:10:54.649 --> 01:10:54.660
And

2212
01:10:55.490 --> 01:10:58.410
I mean there's a pedagogical setting to everything that happens here.

2213
01:10:58.529 --> 01:10:58.799
Well,

2214
01:10:59.209 --> 01:11:00.910
learning is always a dialogue and,

2215
01:11:00.930 --> 01:11:02.009
and you learn.

2216
01:11:02.290 --> 01:11:02.479
I mean,

2217
01:11:02.490 --> 01:11:02.830
I,

2218
01:11:03.779 --> 01:11:04.600
I teach these things too,

2219
01:11:04.609 --> 01:11:04.839
and,

2220
01:11:04.850 --> 01:11:06.410
and one of the things I always tell the students

2221
01:11:06.410 --> 01:11:09.430
is that I don't know what you don't know and you

2222
01:11:09.430 --> 01:11:13.890
have to teach me what you don't know so that you can get some of the things that I do know

2223
01:11:14.250 --> 01:11:17.020
and in the process I'll learn something too as well and it's,

2224
01:11:17.649 --> 01:11:22.390
it's always a dialogue and it's true for institutions as well as for,

2225
01:11:22.439 --> 01:11:23.200
for classrooms.

2226
01:11:24.319 --> 01:11:24.959
I think

2227
01:11:25.200 --> 01:11:29.000
the structure of the suite is really integral to the way the community operates and

2228
01:11:29.359 --> 01:11:31.529
every space is really purposeful

2229
01:11:31.680 --> 01:11:33.229
and so even the one that has like

2230
01:11:33.229 --> 01:11:35.899
a blanket and couches and beautiful window space like

2231
01:11:36.060 --> 01:11:38.580
that is a different environment to go into and so if you're doing

2232
01:11:39.120 --> 01:11:40.939
like any kind of educational work

2233
01:11:41.120 --> 01:11:42.600
it's really important to be able to change

2234
01:11:42.600 --> 01:11:46.029
your environment so drastically like every room feels different

2235
01:11:46.240 --> 01:11:47.740
and it has different levels of

2236
01:11:47.939 --> 01:11:48.580
social.

2237
01:11:49.479 --> 01:11:50.660
Exposure or

2238
01:11:50.839 --> 01:11:51.939
comfort or

2239
01:11:52.040 --> 01:11:52.439
darkness,

2240
01:11:52.490 --> 01:11:53.600
like whatever you need and

2241
01:11:53.959 --> 01:11:56.720
I feel like the suite is so perfect for everything we've ever had to do

2242
01:11:56.720 --> 01:12:00.120
and you can like transform it to have a talk and transform it to have a

2243
01:12:00.439 --> 01:12:01.109
press conference,

2244
01:12:01.120 --> 01:12:02.180
like whatever needs to happen

2245
01:12:02.439 --> 01:12:02.750
and

2246
01:12:02.879 --> 01:12:03.700
I think it's really.

2247
01:12:04.850 --> 01:12:08.770
Important to how the community feels from the student's perspective.

2248
01:12:10.520 --> 01:12:12.799
There is a kind of disposition that ends up in the corner

2249
01:12:12.799 --> 01:12:15.669
office with the windows and a disposition that ends up in Kurosawa,

2250
01:12:15.759 --> 01:12:16.379
which is

2251
01:12:16.879 --> 01:12:17.680
so poorly lit.

2252
01:12:18.759 --> 01:12:20.169
From the perspective of

2253
01:12:20.430 --> 01:12:21.270
the corner office,

2254
01:12:22.189 --> 01:12:23.189
but I think it's perfect and.

2255
01:12:27.229 --> 01:12:29.250
Finding people in the beanbags is always a surprise.

2256
01:12:29.500 --> 01:12:29.509
It,

2257
01:12:29.589 --> 01:12:30.180
that's,

2258
01:12:30.189 --> 01:12:31.629
I wish there was a rule against that,

2259
01:12:31.750 --> 01:12:31.970
but

2260
01:12:32.649 --> 01:12:33.669
it was always shocking.

2261
01:12:35.720 --> 01:12:36.540
I didn't need

2262
01:12:36.939 --> 01:12:38.799
science to tell me that naps were good,

2263
01:12:39.000 --> 01:12:39.359
but

2264
01:12:39.700 --> 01:12:42.439
there is research out now that tells us naps are good.

2265
01:12:42.939 --> 01:12:42.950
Yeah,

2266
01:12:43.200 --> 01:12:43.839
they always say you,

2267
01:12:43.919 --> 01:12:44.490
you learn in,

2268
01:12:44.600 --> 01:12:46.359
you learn in your sleep and you,

2269
01:12:46.439 --> 01:12:47.819
you learn to skate in the summer.

2270
01:12:48.680 --> 01:12:49.109
So

2271
01:12:49.270 --> 01:12:49.810
I.

2272
01:12:51.089 --> 01:12:51.589
I've seen,

2273
01:12:52.009 --> 01:12:52.209
you know,

2274
01:12:52.290 --> 01:12:53.899
napping take place in Rosalind Franklin.

2275
01:12:55.109 --> 01:12:57.520
In Kurosawa and I think that's a legitimate thing to do.

2276
01:12:59.830 --> 01:13:02.700
I'm worried about there being plenty of space as we continue to grow them.

2277
01:13:03.189 --> 01:13:05.450
The space makes so much sense for where we're at.

2278
01:13:06.290 --> 01:13:07.859
But capacity is gonna change.

2279
01:13:08.450 --> 01:13:09.729
I'm committed not to moving

2280
01:13:10.669 --> 01:13:12.640
unless I'm mistaken and I can be talked out of it.

2281
01:13:12.729 --> 01:13:15.220
I'm committed not to moving until we have enough space

2282
01:13:15.649 --> 01:13:18.129
to make a larger version of this that tries

2283
01:13:18.129 --> 01:13:20.970
to at least reproduce those different kinds of dispositions,

2284
01:13:21.370 --> 01:13:23.009
the different way in which.

2285
01:13:24.220 --> 01:13:27.540
A Whitman-like space could be used three different ways.

2286
01:13:28.560 --> 01:13:31.560
I don't wanna move just to a bigger space if it couldn't be

2287
01:13:31.879 --> 01:13:33.879
partitioned in a way that allows it.

2288
01:13:34.700 --> 01:13:35.359
Multiple use.

2289
01:13:37.319 --> 01:13:38.549
But that's our next big thing.

2290
01:13:38.930 --> 01:13:40.870
So my real wish isn't for

2291
01:13:41.839 --> 01:13:42.930
radically different ethos,

2292
01:13:42.970 --> 01:13:43.479
but

2293
01:13:43.729 --> 01:13:44.060
a

2294
01:13:44.490 --> 01:13:48.270
radically wealthy donor who wants to build the honors building

2295
01:13:48.729 --> 01:13:49.450
that we designed.

2296
01:13:50.180 --> 01:13:52.410
With student input and try to get this

2297
01:13:52.709 --> 01:13:53.189
to scale.

2298
01:13:59.169 --> 01:14:02.140
We had too few students for the size of the suite when it was built,

2299
01:14:02.250 --> 01:14:05.410
but I promised them that we would bring the stu the students would get,

2300
01:14:05.490 --> 01:14:07.209
we could persuade people to come

2301
01:14:07.490 --> 01:14:08.620
if we had something they want,

2302
01:14:08.729 --> 01:14:09.649
to which they wanted to come.

2303
01:14:11.359 --> 01:14:12.359
And it turned out to be right.

2304
01:14:13.310 --> 01:14:14.580
So you're gonna have to fight that fight again.

2305
01:14:16.569 --> 01:14:16.930
Yes,

2306
01:14:17.169 --> 01:14:17.950
but now

2307
01:14:18.169 --> 01:14:21.490
in the millions of dollars rather than in the tens of thousands.

2308
01:14:22.129 --> 01:14:23.899
That's a different conversation and a

2309
01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:24.890
radically different fight,

2310
01:14:24.930 --> 01:14:25.649
I understand.

2311
01:14:26.479 --> 01:14:29.240
And I would say that I don't know how to be good at the 2nd.

2312
01:14:31.799 --> 01:14:33.120
But that's what foundation people do,

2313
01:14:33.169 --> 01:14:33.390
right?

2314
01:14:33.450 --> 01:14:33.479
That's,

2315
01:14:35.169 --> 01:14:35.180
well,

2316
01:14:35.189 --> 01:14:35.330
yeah,

2317
01:14:35.410 --> 01:14:35.770
and I mean,

2318
01:14:35.810 --> 01:14:38.049
I think that one of the things that is interesting,

2319
01:14:38.169 --> 01:14:38.290
right,

2320
01:14:38.370 --> 01:14:38.910
is that.

2321
01:14:40.689 --> 01:14:43.060
ASU is this.

2322
01:14:44.020 --> 01:14:48.060
Phoenix is now the 6th largest metropolitan area in the United States

2323
01:14:48.240 --> 01:14:48.899
and

2324
01:14:49.240 --> 01:14:51.709
ASU is the educational institute well,

2325
01:14:51.919 --> 01:14:52.529
it's not the,

2326
01:14:52.680 --> 01:14:52.959
but it's,

2327
01:14:53.029 --> 01:14:53.779
it's the

2328
01:14:54.000 --> 01:14:54.879
not just dominant,

2329
01:14:54.910 --> 01:14:55.759
it's not strong enough,

2330
01:14:55.799 --> 01:14:56.259
it's,

2331
01:14:56.520 --> 01:14:57.299
it's the,

2332
01:14:57.310 --> 01:14:59.279
the core educational institution in the,

2333
01:14:59.319 --> 01:15:01.580
in the city that is the 6th largest

2334
01:15:02.080 --> 01:15:02.879
city in the country,

2335
01:15:02.919 --> 01:15:04.160
and there's really nothing that.

2336
01:15:05.720 --> 01:15:07.399
And um I think

2337
01:15:07.879 --> 01:15:09.080
if you think of um.

2338
01:15:09.870 --> 01:15:12.169
Educational institutes as being a little bit

2339
01:15:12.169 --> 01:15:13.910
like institutions as being a little bit like

2340
01:15:13.910 --> 01:15:18.129
acorns that that have to have a kernel that that's vital that makes them grow.

2341
01:15:18.750 --> 01:15:18.939
I mean,

2342
01:15:18.990 --> 01:15:19.149
I,

2343
01:15:19.200 --> 01:15:20.399
I think Barrett is,

2344
01:15:20.470 --> 01:15:20.500
is,

2345
01:15:20.509 --> 01:15:21.560
is the kernel of,

2346
01:15:21.609 --> 01:15:26.049
of how these institutions can grow because they provide the kind of intensity.

2347
01:15:27.450 --> 01:15:28.149
Education

2348
01:15:28.979 --> 01:15:30.660
I would say not just educational experience,

2349
01:15:30.740 --> 01:15:32.640
but the experience of an experience,

2350
01:15:32.660 --> 01:15:32.970
um,

2351
01:15:32.979 --> 01:15:33.209
uh,

2352
01:15:33.220 --> 01:15:33.339
the,

2353
01:15:33.379 --> 01:15:34.500
the kind of sense that

2354
01:15:34.819 --> 01:15:35.540
that that

2355
01:15:35.799 --> 01:15:37.140
crystallizes into something that,

2356
01:15:37.299 --> 01:15:37.930
that,

2357
01:15:38.089 --> 01:15:39.459
that sustains you later.

2358
01:15:40.209 --> 01:15:42.310
I do think it's really important and it's hard

2359
01:15:42.459 --> 01:15:42.939
to kind of.

2360
01:15:44.049 --> 01:15:44.419
How would you say,

2361
01:15:44.729 --> 01:15:45.169
how to say it's,

2362
01:15:45.209 --> 01:15:47.399
it's very hard to think about history while you're living in it,

2363
01:15:47.450 --> 01:15:48.410
but you have to,

2364
01:15:48.810 --> 01:15:48.930
right?

2365
01:15:49.009 --> 01:15:50.549
And I think that's kind of what we're doing here.

2366
01:15:50.649 --> 01:15:50.839
I mean,

2367
01:15:51.439 --> 01:15:54.270
this is for me this is a lovely conversation because,

2368
01:15:54.689 --> 01:15:55.149
um,

2369
01:15:55.330 --> 01:15:57.290
one of the things that is truly important is that

2370
01:15:57.290 --> 01:15:59.250
you have to think about education while you're in it.

2371
01:16:00.390 --> 01:16:00.589
right.

2372
01:16:01.459 --> 01:16:01.700
I mean,

2373
01:16:01.740 --> 01:16:03.740
I was very struck by what Phoebe said about.

2374
01:16:04.569 --> 01:16:04.589
The the

2375
01:16:04.819 --> 01:16:05.819
the kind of

2376
01:16:06.049 --> 01:16:07.089
being surprised by that,

2377
01:16:07.129 --> 01:16:08.810
it's important to learn to be surprised.

2378
01:16:11.799 --> 01:16:13.799
I like that you were defensive and then it got,

2379
01:16:14.240 --> 01:16:14.680
then you just.

2380
01:16:15.799 --> 01:16:16.229
It happens,

2381
01:16:16.350 --> 01:16:17.270
so you accepted it.

2382
01:16:17.680 --> 01:16:18.799
That's a nice part of that story.

2383
01:16:19.580 --> 01:16:20.000
I like,

2384
01:16:20.250 --> 01:16:20.549
yeah,

2385
01:16:20.680 --> 01:16:21.149
I'll take it.

2386
01:16:21.189 --> 01:16:21.520
Yeah.

2387
01:16:23.930 --> 01:16:24.169
Well,

2388
01:16:24.290 --> 01:16:24.299
I,

2389
01:16:24.479 --> 01:16:26.850
I think we should turn it off and thank everybody.

2390
01:16:26.859 --> 01:16:27.040
I,

2391
01:16:27.129 --> 01:16:27.339
I,

2392
01:16:27.450 --> 01:16:28.410
I'll just thank everybody.

2393
01:16:28.490 --> 01:16:28.649
I don't,

2394
01:16:28.810 --> 01:16:30.169
I don't have the official role of thing,

2395
01:16:30.290 --> 01:16:30.790
but I,

2396
01:16:30.850 --> 01:16:31.109
I,

2397
01:16:31.290 --> 01:16:33.350
I feel privileged to have just even

2398
01:16:33.729 --> 01:16:35.470
participated in this discussion.

2399
01:16:35.890 --> 01:16:36.129
Thank you,

2400
01:16:36.250 --> 01:16:36.799
Dean Ramsey,

2401
01:16:36.810 --> 01:16:37.660
for your participation.

2402
01:16:37.729 --> 01:16:39.209
If you have any more thoughts to share later,

2403
01:16:39.330 --> 01:16:40.750
please feel free to reach out.

2404
01:16:40.970 --> 01:16:42.450
And if you have any questions about the

2405
01:16:42.450 --> 01:16:44.609
interview or the 30th anniversary Oral History Project,

2406
01:16:45.589 --> 01:16:46.209
please contact Bine Nicola.