Hello.
Oh,
hello,
how are you?
I am well.
Thank you for joining me.
My
absolute privilege.
I'm just
so delighted to be a very,
very small part
on what sounds like it's going to be a fantastic undertaking under your leadership.
Uh,
thank you.
I appreciate the vote of confidence,
and it's an honor to get to
be in this role and talk to
amazing people.
Um,
I know we're both here early,
but would you like some time to,
uh,
collect yourself?
Perhaps you didn't expect me to be this early.
I am ready
to go through to sort of Barrett's,
uh,
form and spirit,
if you will,
um,
but I understand I am early if you still need to finish up some things.
Nope,
I'm ready to go.
Let's get to it then.
All right,
so,
For the recording,
I'm talking with Jamie Brooke Forsyth,
who kindly agreed to be recorded as we add voice and texture
via these conversations
to honor and learn from a few of the many wonderful
people that have passed through the doors or somehow been connected
to Barrett,
the Honors College at Arizona State University.
There are so many amazing alumni,
parents,
faculty,
and staff,
and others from whom we can learn
about the foundation,
development,
and evolution of Barrett over the years.
And I'm honored to be talking with Jamie Brooke Forsyth
today as she's really an amazing and interdisciplinary human being,
and
because she's so interdisciplinary,
I'm sure
that what comes up in this conversation will resonate with a number
of different kinds of students and people from different walks of life.
Um,
before we begin,
are you comfortable with me
calling you Jamie or do you prefer a different address term?
Jamie is perfect.
Thank you so much.
And for the recording,
I'm Doctor Stephanie Delusa.
My students call me Doctor D and you can call me Stephanie or anything else you want,
but isn't that general family of terms.
Excellent.
So I could
list the 4 bachelor's degrees that you earned from ASU as well as the 2 masters,
one of which was from
ASU,
but so that we hear your voice as much or
hopefully more than my own during our time together,
would you please
share your educational background in in some detail and
Your path and when you got these degrees and what motivated them,
etc.
Certainly.
Um,
so I am very proud to say
I have 5 degrees from Arizona State University,
including
a certificate from Barrett the Honors College.
Um,
I have 4 bachelor's degrees that are in music performance,
specifically violin,
political science,
um,
interdisciplinary studies,
which focused on the Polish language,
and English literature.
And one a master's degree in political theory.
And really,
I understand on paper that they do not seem to have an organic connection,
um,
but for me,
they really did unfold quite organically.
I came
to ASU
without really a crystallized vision of what
I wanted out of my collegiate experience,
but I was confident that ASU
and Barrett,
more specifically,
would afford me the chance
to really explore a range of subjects
and see where my intellectual curiosity
took me.
Um,
I came to ASU specifically knowing
that one,
line of inquiry would be in music,
in violin performance,
and I also knew I wanted to supplement that with
one more,
um,
academic degree.
So when I matriculated into ASU
I actually began as a violin performance and
biochemical engineering
major.
Um,
but,
as expected,
the
path evolved.
Um,
I really discovered that the engineering core coursework as a freshman,
um,
conflicted and occurred at the exact same time,
um,
as the core curriculum for my music degree.
And so it was a little bit of a head and the heart,
uh,
decision there.
And I went with the heart and my love of music
and thought,
well,
let's see what else I can find
across the vast ecosystem of ASU
to study.
Um,
actually,
it was
my,
uh,
Barrett's upperclassman mentor,
my freshman year,
who recommended an introduction to political science.
And I just found the coursework,
the line of inquiry that was pursued in class,
the types of research
that we were conducting in the papers to be so fascinating
that that led to the political science degree.
Um,
the Polish degree,
uh,
really benefited,
and I'm sure as we speak together,
Stephanie
will explore this a little,
but through,
um,
ASU's,
uh,
National
Scholarship Advising Office,
uh,
and I knew I wanted to apply for something
and was pointed to ASU's Critical Languages Institute.
Where I studied Polish and then utilize that to form an NSEP
um scholarship application
and successfully became a grantee and then built a Polish degree around that.
And then lastly,
English literature,
I happen to sort of realize I'd
accumulated
Uh,
sort of core of credits that worked toward that,
um,
and that was something I certainly loved while in high school,
and so I
tacked that on because it worked
with a few extra large,
uh,
course loads for a semester or two.
Um,
so it really was just,
I think the ethos of
Barrett students,
especially of
being excited about an opportunity,
being curious to delve into something,
and
running down the path,
uh,
that sort of unfolded in front of me.
Well,
I wonder if you're still in touch with that
upper class person who suggested the political science class because
they would be very proud of you right now.
Well,
speaking to the great friendships formed while at Barrett,
I am indeed.
Um,
our careers,
in fact,
have crossed paths
in addition to our ongoing friendship.
So we really never know
where Barrett will take us.
It's so true,
and I have had a number of Barrett students myself who
were pursuing political science and
Oh,
I hope someday you all cross paths to each other with each other because
they're,
they're amazing people as well.
Now,
just to be clear,
you mentioned NSEP,
but for those who don't know,
that's the US National Security Education Program.
So do you want to expand on
how you fit that in,
that Critical Languages Institute,
because it appears to me that you,
you left
ASU for a while,
maybe it was just for a summer and studied in Poland.
Yes,
so you are exactly correct of what NSEP stands for.
Um,
to elaborate a little bit on that for those unfamiliar with the NACP program,
it's analogous to Fulbright,
but has more of a linguistic focus to it.
And another unique attribute of it is for the amount of time
that you receive funding from the US government,
you owe service back
to the government for that amount of time.
So,
um,
my
NSEP grant writing,
um,
really leveraged the ANSA office at ASU
where really the team there
knew exactly
the formula
to set a student up for success,
and I was the beneficiary of all of that expertise.
One of the
bits of guidance that I received was
a successful application generally asserted the arguments of
why what you are studying in your degrees
tied into where you were going.
Um,
so for me,
uh,
Poland is a truly vibrant
place,
particularly for the classical
violin and piano repertoire,
um,
home of familiar names to most people like Chopin,
um,
and so I
wrote that I was going to research,
uh,
a female composer of the 20th century.
Um,
while I was there studying in Poland,
um,
and then Poznan,
Poland,
on the western half of the country,
uh,
just coincidentally happened to have the strongest
English literature and creative writing program in most of Western Europe.
And so I was able to tie in that English component,
English literature component.
And Poland in its history
is absolutely fascinating from a political standpoint,
both for the theories that have arguably played out as armies have
marched across the country and seen the border shift,
but also for the implications of what that means for the Polish identity
and the significance of culture
to preserving the Polish people's identity.
And so,
um,
I couldn't have asked for a better way of tying those in together,
um,
really leveraging everything that I was exploring at ASU
and just
taking that overseas for a semester,
uh,
to study.
And as an unexpected byproduct,
really getting my first taste at
physically picking up and moving to the unknown,
and learning to live in unfamiliar cities,
um,
test out what that discomfort is like and learning that it's not too scary.
People are very warm and welcoming and willing to assist and offer their,
um,
help.
If you just ask for it,
um,
and,
and sort of tying
together what that's helped build for me as a career foundation,
um,
down the road when I subsequently had an opportunity
to move abroad for work,
I thought,
well,
I've been there,
done that,
let's go.
Well,
that's a perfect
anecdote to help support other students who are
not sure if they have the confidence or
courage to study overseas and to
To work with the Office of National Scholarship Advisement,
which
is at ASU in general,
but it's,
it's placed in and very interlinked with Barrett
because it's so many of the Barrett students
that are well prepared and take advantage of these opportunities.
So
thank you for sharing about that and just as a quick follow up,
what's the name of the person that you researched over there?
Great question.
Her name is Grazinna Batsevich.
Um,
and,
uh,
I actually traveled around Poland collecting books that were written about her.
And some of my language practice
was sitting in a little cafe every afternoon and translating
uh texts.
So I got my
Polish practice,
while also working on my
music
line of inquiry for research and just those general research skills.
So,
since we just touched on fear and courage a little bit,
I hope you'll indulge me,
but I found an old quote that you used to value.
I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it correctly,
but Eva Gerlick.
Mhm.
And it was about fear,
and it looks like it's from deep in your past,
and it sounds like you've faced and overcome.
Those kind of natural fears that we have as students,
as well as
um
just taking some interesting turns
in your,
your career.
So what we didn't mention yet is that after
finishing your four
bachelor's degrees,
can you
share how one of those kind of was a,
a,
a program that led you into one of your masters and
how you went on to a second master's after that,
and
we'll pick up after that.
Yes,
so,
I,
uh,
benefited from
ASU offering a 5-year,
uh,
joint bachelor's and master's program uh in political science,
and so that's what Stephanie alluded to in the nice,
uh,
organic unfolding of those two degrees.
I think that really was a way of
taking advantage
of
the
research I had already done and the studies
that had built a nice
political science foundation,
but I really wanted to further explore
um the political theories and
really
utilize the expertise of some of the phenomenal professors
uh in that department.
And so,
it was a
quick way
to get another degree,
I guess,
under my belt,
um,
but I also at the same time,
um,
began,
uh,
an internship which
sort of quickly morphed into a,
a full-time.
Job,
um,
working for Barbara Barrett while I finished my master's,
so,
uh,
true to form I think Barrett students never are really just doing one or two things,
maybe they're doing
19 or 20 things simultaneously.
Yes,
I was wondering how you fit it all in,
and
I was gonna ask
if you began
working with Barbara Barrett in some sort of capacity connected with
Barrett,
like the internship program,
or if that happened after you graduated.
But with your bachelor's degrees.
Yeah,
so I actually got that first
internship that morphed into a job
um by responding to
a,
quite candidly,
very vague
but intriguing email that was sent over the Honors Digest,
um,
and that
I thought really sort of caught my eye,
and it was addressed to Barrett Seniors.
And I
made a note,
oh,
I should go ask the Dean,
Dean Jacobs at the time,
a little bit more about what this is,
um,
but then it sort of got distracted by classes,
and when I saw my Post-it note reminder a little while later,
I,
I did reach out,
um,
and was told,
please submit a resume.
And fast forward,
I found myself
having an interview with um
Barbara Barrett,
uh,
namesake of the school,
after graduation.
So you really never know
where your honors journey
may take you.
And that relates to you.
Moving overseas again and
building on that experience you had in Poland,
but in another
country through your work
with Barbara Barrett.
Could you expand on that,
please?
Yeah,
so I,
in hindsight,
could not have asked
for a more empowering launchpad
to my career,
uh,
that
had the benefit of building on a phenomenal foundation that I built at Barrett.
Um,
Barbara was a very empowering
uh boss and mentor.
She always
gave me runway
to see what I could do,
what research I could find,
what ideas I might come up with,
and if I was willing to put the elbow grease in and do the work,
she was willing to see what might be the result.
Um,
and I think that's really a,
a treat to have had not only.
As a
a career experience,
but particularly early on in my career.
Um,
I think one thing,
uh,
that I really internalized in that first role,
um,
which took us,
as you,
uh,
you did allude to Stephanie,
uh,
to work together at the US Embassy in Helsinki,
Finland,
where Barbara served as the US ambassador to Finland.
Um,
I really
Learned
through watching her put into practice
that just because something is the status quo,
doesn't mean that's how we have to accept it.
Um,
if something had not been done,
that doesn't mean that it couldn't be done.
Um,
if something was hard,
that wasn't a reason to rule it out.
And I think
One thing that's really um sort of springs to mind in
terms of sharing maybe a little bit of an anecdote about
working with her in Finland,
um,
relates to
that early period when we were settling in.
Her term began
shortly before summer,
and in Finland,
Finns really depart
Helsinki,
the capital,
for July.
Um,
and so
she was asking,
well,
why am I going to be in Helsinki
when the people I am supposed to be building relationships with,
advocating on behalf of the United States,
building partnerships with aren't here?
And so we designed a biking expedition from the Swedish-Finnish border
to the Finnish-Russian border.
And set it up as sort of a two-pronged expedition.
During the day it was business,
um,
and so along the route,
we stopped during the day and met with business leaders,
schools,
universities,
phenomenal tech hubs,
libraries,
even cultural institutions.
Um,
and
so,
where can we partner with the United States?
Maybe there's an organization or company
that there's a natural synergy there,
but that introduction maybe hasn't been facilitated yet.
Um,
and we often
heard Finn's remark,
you know,
uh,
US ambassador's never come here before.
And so I think
Just
showing up,
demonstrating Americans are very approachable,
um,
did a lot for public diplomacy.
And then every day at 5 p.m. thereabouts,
we'd hop on our bikes and bike
roughly till midnight because the sun didn't set
that high north,
uh,
close to the Arctic Circle,
and I think
it always has really resonated with me quite profoundly
to see the impact
of a US ambassador hopping off a bike.
And introducing herself to some things that might be gardening in their front lawn
or playing with their kids in the evening.
Um,
and I think
demonstrating that accessibility,
that engagement,
um,
the willingness to
create opportunities for paths to cross and for dialogue to happen,
um,
has been a framework
that I always continue to
Seek out
applications of.
Um,
it was
not necessarily
a moment where anybody said,
here is a teachable moment,
make sure you observe,
but it was something that I think was so special about working with Barbara,
um,
uh
Thinking about ways to create solutions
uh that haven't been encountered that maybe
sort of push the envelope
and expand the impact of
the audience that's either having
uh that engagement,
um,
or broadening the awareness of whatever the topic or initiative may be.
So it sounds like it was a
A formative experience,
whether there was direct mentoring
or indirect mentoring,
you got a lot out of
being in Barbara Barrett's sphere,
and
sounds like you got some good exercise as well.
That's true,
that's true.
And um we haven't mentioned this,
and it didn't necessarily.
seem to connect a lot with Barrett,
but I think it's still gonna inspire and add texture here that you're,
you had a background in
ballet,
which gave you some of that
physical stamina that apparently one would need to
be serving with Barbara Barrett in Finland.
And
I saw you'd also climbed Mount Everest.
Is that
accurate?
Uh,
there's a nuance to that,
Stephanie.
I did an endurance hiking challenge
where
you are challenged to
climb a mountain over and over
in 36 hours or less to accumulate the vertical height
of Mount Everest,
29,029 ft.
So I have full respect of those who have successfully
summited Mount Everett itself.
I did a slightly less daunting version,
um,
for those successful mountaineers,
uh,
but was quite challenging for me.
Oh,
yeah,
it's certainly an impressive feat,
and,
you know,
circling back to
having
You know,
this,
this fitness and these,
the balance and the accessibility that you just talked about,
when you were pursuing your undergraduate degrees.
Do you feel like you struck a balance at that time?
Were you
working or were you involved in clubs,
or were
given the four degrees?
Were you mainly focused on
academics?
Hm,
that's a great question.
I actually really think
that
Both
The ASU
ecosystem,
where
really anything is possible in terms of what you want to study,
combined with
the infectious nature
of the Barrett community,
you can't help but have
inspiring opportunities bump into you,
even if you're trying to put your head down and just study.
Um,
that I did have to learn.
That balance.
And it wasn't necessarily a
Uh,
a balance in terms of
Time,
but it was really about thinking about the organization of things.
I would say.
Sort of in the line vein of what we were just speaking about the
29
or 29 Everesting challenge.
Barrett really set me up with the foundation for something like that and learning to
break down
a big daunting task
into bite-size pieces.
I think in hindsight,
I never really thought about,
oh my goodness,
if I'm going to try to do 4 bachelor's degrees in 4 years,
how overwhelming the number of classes
is
that I'm going to have to complete.
Instead,
it was really just,
OK.
For this semester,
what do I need to target?
OK,
for this week,
within those classes,
what needs to get done?
And then thinking about just breaking it down into those very digestible bites,
um,
sort of made it
not daunting,
made it very approachable,
and actually created space for it to be both fun and enjoyable.
Um,
and so I
I almost think that by
nature of being so inspired by so many things that I could do,
um,
we've really touched just on the,
the classes so far,
but obviously there are
clubs and organizations and so many other things
that create that well-rounded student experience at Barrett,
um.
It was a way of just learning that framework of fitting it all in,
um,
and
making it enjoyable along the way.
You lived
in the Barrett community as well,
correct?
I did,
yes.
Can you tell me more about what
That was like in general and some specifics,
because if I have my dates correct,
you were
at Barrett before we had our new buildings.
That's correct.
Yes,
um,
I,
so most broadly,
I think something that is
Very special,
um,
about
Bear it
within.
ASU
is,
I like to tell prospective students to bear it.
That if you
really want
A
vast,
vivacious.
It's
a vibrant
research university.
ASU
is the school for you.
If you want a curated liberal arts curriculum
in a more approachably sized community,
bear it.
Is the college for you,
and
you can have the best of those
two
fairly disparate worlds
while at one institution.
So why not take advantage of that?
Um,
the upside of it was that Barrett really was a bit of a home base for me.
Um,
I,
as I said,
I always thought of it as infectious,
um,
It was honestly sort of hard to stay still.
Action was sort of inevitable.
Um,
there was always activity,
there was always movement.
I did live in the older
Barrett community,
as you said,
Stephanie.
Uh,
my first year I lived in Best Sea.
My second year,
uh,
I thought I was tickled pink when I found out I was gonna
live in what was the newer dorms of Hayden East and Hayden West.
Um,
and then there was this dusty courtyard
in the center where you sort of pass through between classes or to meet friends.
Um,
we didn't have a lot of food options.
The Memorial Union,
um,
was probably the closest place,
and so being
scrappy about scraps,
um,
was a bit of a bonding experience.
I think.
You know,
the
The dorms were maybe a little more rough and tumble,
but I think
it was great,
because it wasn't such a cushy oasis that you didn't want to leave your room.
It really almost was a forcing function to get you out of your room and interact
with students and faculty and professors,
um.
I
I imagine
if I traveled back in time,
I could have offered some constructive criticism
on living in the old
uh community,
but now that's sort of washed away,
uh,
and all of the phenomenal highlights are all that's remaining.
Have you been back to the
campus and
seen the new community,
and what are your thoughts about it?
I have.
The first time I stepped
into the new honors complex
was surf and turf night.
I was blown away.
Um,
it felt like
there were parts of
the dining hall that were Harry Potter-esque,
with the banners hanging from the ceiling.
But what was unchanged,
even though the walls and sort of the accouterment of everything
were perhaps
More refined
was the consistency of the energy and engagement of students,
and so that's what told me,
I'm back at Barrett.
So,
what do you remember?
You mentioned a few minutes ago about teachers,
professors,
all the different
people you could
visit when you were outside your dorm room.
What do you remember about the human event and
The people you met there,
your professors,
if it helped you in your other courses or in your
Your career and life.
Yeah,
the human event I think is a special gem
that every Barrett graduate treasures,
um.
My second semester of human events,
Professor Lenore Brady um was the teacher,
and she just had this special gift
of
making a text come alive through the discussion,
but also
making it applicable
to life
as a student that sometimes was very disparate from the life of the characters or
Um,
the writers of the piece we were reading,
I think.
One piece that continues to resonate in my
both professional and personal life from the human event
is
the skill of civil discourse,
learning to
read,
articulate an idea.
And sometimes even if we felt very strongly
about a personal interpretation of a text,
learning to have
that dynamic,
but still courteous discussion with our classmates,
um,
to explore and understand the nuances of
our respective interpretations
and
where we were coming from in forming
sort of that interpretation or thesis.
I think something that's also special about the way
the human events seminar is taught
is that
it's small.
There's no place to hide if you didn't do the reading,
it would show,
um,
and
in contrast sometimes to
larger courses
on campus,
there was really a sense of accountability.
That forms
uh with
your peers.
Um,
and I think that was
Very unique and reflects
what a treasured culture Barrett fosters.
It's been there since the beginning,
and
I,
I think it's a key piece to building community and a springboard
for,
as you said,
Polite
civil discourse.
Did you,
you get to meet Ted Humphrey then?
I did have the privilege.
Um,
I was
there as the transition sort of happened.
So the first Dean that I ever had was
Dean Jacobs,
but Dean Humphreys certainly still had a presence.
Um,
his wife Janet led the ASA office,
which we talked about,
and I think that
The care
that
the deanship,
uh,
Sort of passed Dean to Dean,
that was shown by the continued engagement of the predecessor,
while also creating space
for Dean Jacobs upon his arrival
to
continue.
Growing Barrett into what it's become today,
and I know Dean Williams continues to take it into further flourishing levels,
um,
is,
is special
as the leadership of the college
and also a great
sort of leadership by example for
students like me
to see how that transfer,
um,
benefits into posterity,
the institution.
So,
you mentioned
That you,
I guess my question is.
When you were in high school,
did you consider any other universities
and
Whether you did or not,
when you decided
about ASU,
did you already know about Barrett,
or how did you find your way to Barrett?
Hm.
OK,
so the first question,
um,
I did apply to a few other universities,
um,
as I shared,
I knew that music performance
was something that was important to me,
um,
for college.
So really my
duration of schools to which I applied
revolved around what was the violin performance,
and then specific for
Um,
the music disciplines was
what professors maybe have spots available for
the year I was matriculating into college.
Um,
I think.
One thing that I was cognizant of
coming into
undergraduate studies
was that I
was fairly confident I wanted to do
some sort of graduate studies.
Whether it was immediately after graduation or down the road,
that was something that was on my radar.
And so thinking about
um affordability was something that I was mindful of.
Uh,
ASU,
when I entered,
was,
uh,
offered not only phenomenal education,
but at,
uh,
a relatively affordable price point for the quality of education,
and
really phenomenal scholarships.
Uh,
so that was certainly something
that I was mindful of.
And then the reputation of Barrett,
uh,
having that.
Smaller community.
At the time,
I think it was the smaller community that was most on my
radar.
Um,
I liked
knowing that there was a starting point
for meeting people
and navigating ASU,
uh,
which
can be very large and daunting,
of where do you begin?
Um,
and so that certainly,
uh,
was something that drew me to thinking,
I think this will be
a place that I can be
successful,
I can
learn,
uh,
and set myself up,
uh,
for a career,
whatever that may be.
So,
following up on a couple different threads,
since you just mentioned the violin performance again,
and
your career,
whatever it might be,
going in a very different direction,
I mean,
perhaps there was
a younger version of you that thought
she would grow up to be a violin performer.
I don't know if that's true or not,
but could you share
some of the
places and notable people
with whom you actually have got to still fulfill
some part of that violin side of you,
despite your career taking a
very different turn.
Yes,
this is one of my favorite things to talk about.
Um,
I,
I did actually know,
um,
even while
beginning my studies,
uh,
that I was not going to make a career out of performance.
I always felt
strongly that,
um,
I could find fulfillment
and enjoyment in doing other
Pursuits?
Well,
there are some people that only can find
enjoyment and fulfillment
from pursuing an art.
And so I didn't want to detract from an already very finite
set of seats,
if you will.
But I did know that I wanted
um
to
remain engaged for the rest of my life.
I now call myself a full-time audience member
rather than a full-time musician.
Um,
I think this year so far I'm
at 38 performances so far this year,
so I feel like
that.
That's,
it really is,
Stephanie,
it really is.
But,
you know,
there are ways that music has
intertwined itself.
Um,
even in the most unexpected ways,
um,
while working at the US embassy,
um,
we hosted an evening of the female ambassadors
to Finland,
um,
and the
One of the ambassadors,
um,
there happened to be the
Ambassador from Poland.
And so I was able to talk to her about
my undergraduate honors thesis on Grazinna Batsevich,
and she was just lit up when she found out someone actually knew
who this was
really outside of Poland and was excited to talk about her music and contribution
um to culture in the country.
I've found that
uh I have brought colleagues over time to performances
as a way of let's do something a little different
in terms of,
uh,
you know,
some bonding time after work.
Uh,
I found really that attending performances,
um,
is a little bit of,
uh,
a retreat.
It's one of the few sacrosanct places
in the
21st century
where you still put away your phone
and you're not looking at it during the performance.
And sometimes
I'm able to sit there and really be immersed in the artistic performance
on stage,
and sometimes I actually
problem solve issues from work,
and just that gear that was stuck is released,
um,
and it's a productive performance.
Uh,
and so,
I think it's something that's very,
very special.
It's something that I treasure,
uh,
in my life.
Um,
my last
little tidbit I'll share with you,
Stephanie,
because it has,
uh,
an ASU connection.
Uh,
in 2021,
um,
I had finished the job,
uh,
that took me to Washington DC.
It was still,
um,
Pretty limited in terms of engagement,
um,
because of COVID-19 at the time.
Um,
and while I was figuring out what I wanted to do next with my career,
I thought,
well,
I have no excuses now.
It's time to get the cobwebs out of my fingers and do some violin practicing.
And I happened to know that one of my
ASU classmates,
uh,
was living in Baltimore,
well,
Maryland,
while I lived in Arlington,
Virginia,
and so I reached out and said,
you know,
we've always brainstormed.
Doing some playing together,
I play violin,
he played bassoon,
he'd actually found some repertoire specifically
composed for that somewhat obscure ensemble.
Um,
and so we formed a duo and started performing as the Arlene Moore Quartet or duo.
Um,
and so that was a way where my ASU network
brought me back together,
uh,
and music brought me back together,
uh,
and that was
really great fun,
um,
and,
uh,
a way to,
to continue playing at the same time.
I love that story.
And didn't you get to solo
for the president at some point?
And which president was that?
I have,
you,
yes,
I've had the privilege of playing for,
um,
President Bush,
Justice Sandra Day O'Connor,
um,
and at the time,
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.
So those are three moments that I certainly
treasure,
uh,
a great,
great deal.
Um,
growing up in Arizona,
Justice O'Connor was a little bit of a personal hero.
Um,
I think I prepared
my
Barrett and ASU writing chops,
um,
in high school,
doing,
uh,
National History Day and writing on Justice O'Connor.
Um,
so having the opportunity to play for her was really
cherry on top of a lifetime.
Very nice.
You mentioned a moment ago about
Being in a gap
or a transition in your career.
And
I did want to learn more about when you
left
Helsinki and maybe pivoted towards what
is
a different direction,
though I'm sure there's a Venn diagram overlap in terms of,
of the global.
Thought and perspective involved,
but you,
you pivoted towards finance,
and
I'm not sure that that would have been predicted from your educational background,
though you
haven't told us yet about your Yale masters.
Yeah,
so,
I think,
uh,
as a parallel to
what was a natural
organic unfolding of my
ASU degrees,
the
various chapters of my career have
had a similar
organic unfolding.
Um,
after working um with Ambassador Barrett in Finland,
I did work for her
a few more years back in the US
and then went to business school at Yale
uh for an MBA
in part because one thing that I was observing.
Um,
was
a common
theme when something maybe wasn't perfectly executed.
There tended to be
a theme of
finance to it.
And I did not speak the language of balance sheets and income statements
to be proactive about anticipating
and addressing those issues.
So I thought,
well,
if I go to business school,
uh,
I'll add that
tool to my toolbox.
Um,
I did go to business school
with a very open mind about what my,
um,
postgraduate career might
look like,
with one exception,
I did not want to do finance.
Uh,
and it turned out,
uh,
in the vein of,
you know,
practicing
what I learned while at Barrett,
um,
you never know
where luck will strike you,
but put yourself
in spots where luck can strike you.
Um,
I attended a presentation,
um,
one lunch that I had free
by an alum of the university,
uh,
and
all of the,
the top finance students were there and they
were asking questions that I did not understand.
But I did understand
one of the topics the speaker addressed,
which was
the evolution of legislation being passed in Congress.
shaping the world of finance
after the great financial crisis.
That I understood.
And so
I went up afterwards,
gave him my
22nd spiel about why I was in business school to learn finance.
I confessed
I did not understand what a trading floor did,
um,
despite my classes about efficient capital markets.
I just couldn't wrap my head around it.
Um,
I found his remarks about legislation in Congress insightful
and shared a little of my background in that,
and asked if I could invite myself
to come see a trading floor.
Little did I know that one does not normally invite yourself to a trading for.
Uh,
which he promptly informed me,
uh,
and then said,
why
do you think you can just invite yourself?
And I said,
well,
I figure the worst you're going to tell me is no,
and I'll be no worse off than I am now.
And
he commented,
good risk management analysis.
And took my business card.
So fast forward,
uh,
I thought I was spending an afternoon seeing a trading floor.
It turned out I spent the afternoon interviewing across the trading floor,
uh,
and at the end of the day,
um,
was really privileged to be offered an opportunity to intern there
during my MBA internship summer.
Um,
so,
I
rotated through fixed income,
um,
which would be trading debt
of companies,
municipalities,
um,
and really found my home in municipal finance,
which is
public financing in the United States.
So if you think about a bond,
uh,
ballot initiative,
That maybe ask you to vote on
raising property taxes to build a new school in the community
or fund new public safety or roads or sewers.
I often describe it as
Municipal finance works on things you don't pay attention to until they break.
And then they really impact your life.
Um,
so I was invited to work on the municipal bond trading desk.
Um,
and
the rest is sort of history in terms of that next chapter.
The environment was the opposite of diplomacy,
but it was
extremely fast-paced.
I liked at the end of the day,
you
really knew if you made a good decision
or a poor decision because there was a scorecard
on the trading desks,
um,
balance sheet there of positions.
Um,
and
found my little niche.
Thank you for explaining that.
I'm sure it will be
fascinating
to students who,
who think they're gonna be in the same kind of career forever,
but in fact,
we can have career shifts and marry a lot of different jobs within a given career.
And
I think one of the ones that we,
we skipped over between Helsinki and what you just described is when you were
the director of Global strategy and senior advisor
to the 25th Secretary of the Air Force,
which was Barbara Barrett.
That's that
few years you talked about.
How was
that?
Different or what did you learn?
I mean,
I do have students who are interested in
military kinds of connections,
so
You've had diplomacy,
you've got a little military connection,
you've got finance,
that's that interdisciplinarity that's interesting.
Yes,
so I,
um,
worked in two roles,
um,
in finance,
and during that time,
stayed in touch with Ambassador Barrett.
Um,
I did have the privilege when she
asked if I would come and work for her a second time on her team when she became
Secretary of the Air Force,
um,
which required me to move to,
to DC to work at the Pentagon.
Um,
it was
a little bit of a vote of confidence from a mentor that I highly respect
to be invited to something like that.
It was also,
uh,
a bit of a challenge,
uh,
for me to see,
can I navigate
a completely
new,
quite foreign,
extraordinarily large
organization.
Um,
and
can I
pivot
to get up to speed quickly on national security topics that I previously was not.
Delving into
day to day.
Um,
it also turned out,
uh,
that my
time in the role
was as
COVID-19
sort of
began unleashing,
uh,
upon the world.
And so,
not only was I learning new processes and procedures and people and
Insignia on uniforms,
but all of the processes and procedures were in flux at the time.
Um,
I did approach it though
with,
uh,
the attitude of
there's only upside
from this.
I get,
uh,
an opportunity to serve my country and give back a little bit.
And I also get to learn
from
literally battle-tested leaders,
uh,
so it's a bit of a pinch me moment,
um,
to have such a phenomenal opportunity.
I think one thing,
um,
Stephanie,
is you.
Mentioned and,
and maybe tying it in back for
To ASU and Barrett,
um,
I think a lot of
the way that I've approached my career
was built on the foundations of
My experience as a student.
Um,
I think
I learned to take initiative to design
the education that I wanted.
Um,
I sort of followed my nose when I heard
about an interesting tech class or opportunity on campus,
um,
and that's really sort of followed me into how I built
my professional career of
Follow interesting talented leaders,
um,
and,
and unique opportunities,
like
what took me to the Pentagon.
Um,
I think in the vein of thinking about the Pentagon,
which at its height generally has
25,000 people working within it,
or the Department of the Air Force.
With
um thousands and thousands of not only
Uh,
People in
in uniform,
but also their families that are part of
that experience of serving serving the country,
um.
I,
I got my,
my toes wet
navigating ASU because at the time,
ASU was very vast
for me.
Um,
there were a plethora of courses and degrees,
the same as,
um,
the Pentagon had a plethora of
new topics and
people to meet and understand what their role was and
how things got done and who needed what when.
Um,
I think learning to reach out to professors
for mentorship and advice,
um,
while I was a student helped
sort of narrow the aperture of choices
that I had and made it feel a bit less overwhelming,
and that's really a skill.
I continue to utilize,
the onus is on me
to identify the menu of options that
I'm considering and maybe make a recommendation
or two,
but then seeking out the insights of colleagues and mentors
to fine tune that decision.
Um,
I don't think I realized that in the moment while a student,
but
I was getting to practice that.
Um,
I think.
One of my
Overall,
just favorite things when talking to
to students is the
buried environments teaching you those skills,
even when you don't realize it.
Um,
and I think that's
one of the phenomenal gifts of
That
vast ecosystem AS of ASU with that
more curated,
manageably sized community of Barrett,
um,
that you get.
To learn the lessons of those two very disparately sized organizations.
You've mentioned that you,
you talked to students.
In what context does that happen and,
and
tell us more about
your
engagement with student success.
Oh,
well,
I,
I always find
The freshness of students to be motivating.
So it's always
such a joy to have a chance to interact with them.
Um,
I've
had the privilege of um friends and colleagues,
uh,
when they have
kids or,
or family extended family members thinking about making,
um.
A
a choice of college,
um,
and they say,
you know,
we're thinking about Barrett,
um,
we hear it has a phenomenal reputation.
Can you talk to them about what it's like?
Um,
and so that's certainly one
natural venue that often happens.
Um,
I do like visiting campus,
um,
and speaking with students.
Um,
I had
an opportunity a couple of years ago on,
um,
Parents Welcome weekend
to see not only students but also,
um,
their friends and family that were supporting them,
uh,
and it
is just very,
very
fulfilling to see the growth.
Um,
of the school,
while sustaining such a high caliber
of students.
Um,
I think something that
really resonates with me is the ASU mission of
measuring success,
not by who we exclude,
but by who we include if they meet,
um,
The,
the requirements of,
to gain admission to ASU,
uh,
I think that's a very empowering
mission that really resonates through the university fabric.
Um,
and so,
where I can,
it's a
really delight
to support that.
Maybe I'm mistaken,
but did you have a hand in
helping create Barrett's Student Success Center?
I did not have a,
a hand in creating that,
but I certainly,
when I heard about the idea,
um,
thought it was phenomenal and was uh
an eager advocate of it.
I think that
continuing to bolster
the
already phenomenal,
uh,
range of resources for students that faculty and staff provide,
um,
Sort of just reflects a bit of what Barrett is,
of
never
sort of
resting on laurels of all that's already been accomplished,
but constantly thinking about
how can we continue to innovate
and refine what we're offering for students
to set them up for success,
not just to continually advance Barrett,
but also in recognition of the career environment
evolving and therefore,
Needing to adapt
to ensure students
year to year are equally well set up with for that evolving career dynamic.
So,
One more question,
unless something
organically
Pops up,
you mentioned your thesis
that seems to have come from the
Critical Language Institute experience that you had.
About a a Polish
composer.
What was your thesis experience like,
besides the fact that that gave you a connection with that
Polish ambassador years later?
Tell us about your thesis experience and what you learned from it
then or maybe how it helped support you for future endeavors.
Oh.
That's a fun question,
Stephanie.
Um,
So my
Thesis,
um,
I wrote,
uh,
the written thesis
and supplemented the delivery of my honors thesis
with a recital
featuring the music of Grajanabatsevich.
Um,
so one,
I think.
Thinking about
delivering things in multiple formats
is something that is always
maybe percolating in the back of my mind,
um,
professionally,
that's maybe more of how do different audiences
digest the information I wish to convey,
um,
but that's probably has,
you know,
it's roots in the framework of presenting the
Uh my written
research,
um,
giving a lecture about it to the audience,
and then doing the recital as the second half,
um,
That research project was
perhaps one of the most
daunting that I had undertaken
because there was
no
shortcut
to translating the material.
There really was very,
very limited information in English.
For me to rely on.
So I had to complete step one of translating
before
I could do step two
of the analyzing and synthesizing and building the analysis.
Um,
I have not ever really encountered that
to quite such a
literal translation degree subsequently,
but now that I've done it
the hard way,
everything is easier.
I think also,
Again,
sort of tying in a
topic we've touched on of just
Doing so many things while a student.
Um,
I don't think
I've
changed that,
working professionally.
Um,
and so,
Figuring out how to do research.
Effectively
has been something I continue to rely on.
Um,
I
arguably
solidified
my
Um,
full-time job offer out of that internship on the trading floor we talked about
because of research.
Um,
I was
given what
I subsequently learned was deemed a fairly
difficult task of finding out
an obscure,
trying to figure out an obscure answer
to whether
If credit default swaps existed
in 1975,
would New York City have been considered to have defaulted on its debt?
And
Like a good Barrett student,
I went about researching and
found that one of the New York universities,
uh,
fortuitously had scanned
all the historic documentation related to that point in time and so
went to work digging through primary.
Resource material,
building timelines,
laying out a thesis,
uh,
and
studying,
OK,
what are the requirements of,
uh,
default and what happened in history and putting it together.
Uh,
it could have been,
uh,
honors,
uh,
topic that I might have done if I had been in business school,
WP Carey at ASU while a student.
Um,
and so,
That was just not even,
I don't think I thought too much about it.
It was just a creature of habit if you're given a question,
go do the research and put together a paper on it.
Um,
and I think
being able to do that in
just a week or two,
during that internship,
um,
Sort of helped me get my foot in the door,
uh,
professionally for what's turned out to be the core of my career.
That's an inspiring story.
I want to be respectful of your time,
so we'll,
we'll wrap up
now,
but
I must admit,
I'm curious if you see anything
changing in your future,
if you think you're gonna pivot again,
or,
let me put it this way,
I hope we can visit again someday
if you do pivot again,
because there will be
interesting lessons to pull from that,
but.
We've had a great visit,
but I wanna make sure if there's anything else
you'd like to bring up that I,
I didn't ask about or think to include.
Stephanie,
you.
led such an organic.
Easy conversation
and thank you also in advance for just some of the brainstorming topics cause I've
been noodling on that,
as I like to say,
um,
It took me a moment to remember Hayden East and Hayden West.
I was like,
it was Hayden 1,
Hayden 2,
so
thank you for letting me.
Get the cobwebs out of my brain there.
I think there's one maybe topic that
We didn't touch on
To directly.
If you have a moment,
is um
One of the advantages of
The honors,
um,
coursework
in sort of bridging the gap between Barrett and ASU.
Because it really
is an organic,
that seems to be my word of this conversation.
Um,
it's a very natural way of
Approaching a professor
and saying,
you know,
I've been sitting in the back of the auditorium.
I found the subject matter to be very exciting.
Um,
I'd like to delve into it a bit deeper.
Can I make this
an honors?
Course and do some supplementary work.
So one,
I think it
connects
that line of inquiry,
research for students or whatever they might do,
extra lab work at the biosciences
building,
or
maybe help
um the
professor with their own research,
but I think that
bridging that gap between the two
sort of institutions and not keeping them so siloed,
but facilitating synergies between them,
and
I think it's a way to start building that.
Professional network really early on.
Regardless of whether students are continuing on immediately to graduate program
or professional school or going immediately out into a career field,
they have that letter of recommendation they may need,
because they've worked really closely
with the professor.
Um,
you never know where that connection might be useful down the road,
where you now have
Uh,
graduated from the university and
can reach out to a professor in a professional context.
Um,
and so that was one thing we didn't,
I didn't touch upon,
but,
um,
really has been very,
uh,
I think
A value add,
uh,
to my,
my buried experience and what I was able to get out of ASU more broadly
because of some of that honors coursework I did.
I'm so glad you brought it up.
It's really a symbiotic relationship.
You
just highlighted the benefit that can come
to students from starting that network early by
Having an extra reason or a platform
from which to approach faculty and work together.
But
it's also the case that the,
the faculty really benefit
from the Barrett students.
So the larger ASU faculty,
Express in a variety of different ways over the years that
the Barrett students
bring um
an energy
and a gravity
to any class that they're in
and
even though it may also be extra work for them
to do an honors enrichment contract with the student,
it's a,
it's a two-way street.
They do get benefit from it and it's
the Barrett students.
Not
exclusively,
but are often the ones that do wind up
becoming their assistants or working in their labs and
Without
Barrett,
ASU wouldn't be the same place that it is.
It's really a
a match made in heaven to some degree.
I love that.
I 100% agree a match made in heaven for sure.
Well,
I want to thank you again for taking the time to visit with me today and
willing to be
recorded
and
inspire people with who knows what,
how,
who will hear these things.
Just like you said,
it's hard to know
what the ripples will be,
and I just am very grateful for the time you took today,
and it's been a delight
to visit with you.
It's been my privilege.
Thank you so much,
Stephanie,
and if you need anything subsequently from me,
uh,
please just reach out and I will do my best
to provide what you need.
Thank you.
Have a good evening.
You too.
Bye,
Stephanie.