Hello,
this is a 2nd conversation between myself,
Doctor Stephanie Delussa,
a teaching professor and honors faculty fellow,
and Doctor Mark Jacobs,
the 2nd dean of Barrett,
the Honors College at Arizona State University.
Doctor Jacobs has kindly agreed to be recorded
as he shares more of his memories and insights
from his development and leadership of the college for the 19 years that he was dean.
This gives him a rich and meaningful perspective.
Our first recorded conversation offered
his educational background and some highlights
of his professional path,
his arrival at ASU,
and how well he worked together
with Vice Dean Peggy Nelson and his associate Dean Kristen Herman.
So,
Today,
Mark,
I thought perhaps we'd talk about
what your relationship was with the Barretts,
and perhaps,
cause people listening to this might not know anything about the Barretts,
maybe you could
tell us about the Barrett's and how you
met them and that relationship
uh was or developed over time.
Sure,
well,
Craig and Barbara Barrett are the patrons
of the Honors College.
Um,
Craig was the CEO of Intel,
of the whole of Intel worldwide,
when I came out in 2003.
And Barbara Barrett had been
all sorts of things.
She,
she had run for governor of the state.
She,
she,
um,
was the manager of
their resort in Montana.
The um Triple Creek Ranch
and.
She was going to be during the 19 years that I that I knew her and Craig.
Both the ambassador to Finland,
the US ambassador to Finland,
and the secretary of
the Air Force,
which became the Space Force
while she was was the secretary of the Air Force.
So
I think they're now listed as separate entities,
but they have one
secretary,
so.
Um,
Barbara,
Barbara was very well known in the state.
She had,
she had worked at a law firm,
Phoenix right after law school.
She was very closely connected to
Senator Day O'Connor.
And so,
um,
she had lots of connections within the state.
Craig had lots of connections worldwide
because of his,
um,
his.
Sort of leadership experiences
in the field of
microchip processing and fabrication and stuff like that.
So they were,
they were a well-known couple already.
The fact that they were interested in
Barrett was lent Barrett a great amount of credence in
the valley and in the state and in the nation,
I think.
So it was a very valuable
relationship and it was easy to keep up because they were such nice people.
Now,
would you like to know about,
um,
What they were doing as I came out in 2003 or.
Yeah,
whatever you'd care to share about that,
like when you first met them or if you co-created something together,
maybe you didn't interact with them all that much,
or maybe it varied over the years.
Well,
we interacted at least 3 or 4 times a year anyway,
because they came to one of them at least came to almost every
Barrett graduation
or convocation,
so they,
they came in the fall and the spring usually,
and they were very dedicated,
dedicated patrons,
I think,
in the sense that they,
they,
they took a major role in the graduations,
they shook every student's hand
as they came across the stage and,
and greeted them,
Barbara with her ambassador.
Experience was a terrific diplomat anyway.
She was,
she was amazing at how she could,
she could get
personal stories out of each student even within 3 seconds or 5 seconds
or maybe 8 seconds
that that she was given as they came across the stage,
but
many times Craig was there at her side and they both shook,
shook the students' hands as they graduated,
so they were
very dedicated.
They,
they,
they came to um
To graduations,
they came to some of the events.
They were very busy people though.
They were world travelers every year.
In fact,
even this year,
I just got a Christmas,
Christmas sort of period.
Um,
multi,
multi
photo and description
letter from them which I got every year from them
when I was Dean that showed where they'd been,
they're just amazing world travelers,
even in retirement for Craig.
I hesitate to say that either of them is really fully retired,
but Craig is no longer the CEO of,
of Intel,
and Barbara.
I think,
I think that they,
she still manages the ranch
up in Montana.
But,
but
aside from that,
they,
they'd still love to travel and see all these
connections that they have all over the world.
Each of them has built over their careers.
I think they met when they were,
when Barbara at least was in her 40s,
I think,
or early 40s maybe.
Um,
Let's see.
I think that was,
that was about right.
Um,
the,
the story is they met at the top of
Camelback Mountain where they both hiked up to see the sunset.
It's a very romantic story.
They met at the top there,
and they were the two people up there as the sunset one day,
and
it's really a nice story.
I don't know if it's really true,
but it sounds great.
I think it is.
I think it was true from what Barbara told me.
Oh yes,
and
they're such people of integrity.
I can't imagine them making up how they met.
Yeah,
yeah,
I,
I can't imagine that either.
So they,
they met
later in life.
Craig had,
Craig had been
married before and had kids.
I don't think Barbara.
Had,
I don't think she was married before and didn't have children,
um,
but
their lives started
together around that time,
probably 1990s,
in the 1990s maybe.
Um,
and then they had decided with Laddie Corp's important,
very important friendship and input
to give a gift to,
to the honors college.
It's really,
Laddie Laddie doesn't get enough credit for that,
but they gave,
they gave a $10 million gift,
which was a naming gift.
They did not ask for it to be naming.
They've said many times they didn't want to be
be named after them,
and they didn't ask for that,
but,
but it was nonetheless because it was such a huge gift at the time.
At the time it was the biggest gift,
single gift that had ever been given to AS
to ASU,
right.
I'm so glad they allowed it to be named after them because it's a,
a positive example for other people of
such means in the world,
and it did allow for that more personal
relationship to be built just as you described
Barbara taking that extra effort with each student as they crossed the stage even.
Oh,
yeah,
it was.
It was very,
I mean,
and,
and because
Craig was so well known
already as a captain of industry,
and Barbara was extremely well known around the state because she had,
she was,
she was politically connected since she had run for governor,
although she didn't win that contest,
she,
she had run for governor and to do that she
had made all sorts of connections around the state.
So they were both,
the fact that they favored
Barrett Honors College by,
by,
by giving this naming,
this gift that became a naming gift,
they did not ask for that.
They said many times that they're sort of embarrassed that
that Laddie and others decided to make it a naming gift,
but,
but still they wanted to support it after Laddie had described what it was about.
And,
and he,
and,
but Laddie was the one who sort of convinced them that
this would make a huge difference for,
for the honors college at ASU and they were happy to jump in.
At the time,
around the same time they were starting to support the um,
Some other educational.
Uh,
levels.
So,
um,
for instance,
the,
what,
what is the,
uh,
basis?
Yes,
the basis schools,
right,
that was starting down in Tucson at the time and they supported that.
They,
they,
and Craig was on the board of that.
Craig started
basic schools in,
in lots of different places in,
in Arizona and then later
in other states even.
And then they finally,
during the time that I was dean and that,
that I was already here,
they,
they supported Thunderbird
Graduate College
just before it became merged with ASU.
As,
as the,
uh,
School of International Business,
I guess is that what you would call it now what now it's
sort of the Thunderbird School of
International Management or something like that.
Oh yeah,
it has a,
a more
Broad name.
I can look it up for you at some point,
but,
but at the moment,
I'm remembering that
didn't the Barrett's
gift
the college with an additional amount of money in regard to
global leadership?
Yes,
that,
that happened much later,
but yes,
that was true.
So the $10 million was the largest gift that had ever been given to ASU,
but
shortly after I,
and it was given in,
in 199,
1999
and 2000.
So there's a picture of
Barbara and Craig with Ted Humphrey,
the dean at the time.
With a big check for $10 million and they're they're
holding one of those big cardboard jacks they used to show
and people gave a lot of,
people gave a significant gift,
um,
and that was,
that was when they gave the gift.
So,
so this,
it was already the Barrett Honors College when I came in 2003.
Um,
and they had,
they were just,
I met them right away
within the first couple of weeks,
they had me over for,
they had Ellen and me over
for a meal,
and then they had us up to their ranch
in Montana,
which was really a wonderful vacation,
but also a really nice chance to see them both when they were
relaxed,
and,
and Maddie was,
our daughter Madeleine was 3,
I think,
33 or so at the time,
3 or 4.
And Craig and she bonded very much,
very quickly,
fishing in,
in the special fish pond that had lots of fish stocked in it up there.
And such,
and she made him
uh
some ceramic,
um,
pencil holders and things like that that she,
she later gave and he still has on his desk.
So
there was,
I mean,
Craig is a,
is a wonderful guy,
he has his own grandchildren,
but
he,
he and Maddie bonded.
Um,
Maddie and Barbara,
there's a picture we have of Barbara and Maddie
on a horse that was called Pentium Prince.
Maddie,
Maddie called it the horse Princeton because
the only prince she knew was Princeton,
because my,
that's where I grew up and my parents were,
and she'd
gone to her see her grandparents there already.
But,
um,
Barbara,
Barbara took,
took Maddie with her on a horseback ride that we,
that we took through the forest
up on their ranch right away in,
in the fall.
So
it was just a wonderful.
On wrapped to the relationship and the relationship was always so good,
so great.
Never,
never any looking over my shoulder at what I was doing,
just fully trusting me,
the same as Michael Crowe had always done.
They weren't demanding in any way,
they never made any,
any requests or demand
because of their station as patrons ever.
And yet they came,
whenever they were around,
they
came to things like celebrating honors symposium at the end of the year,
and
The two convocations and some of the,
some of the lectures.
Excuse me,
um,
Just to fully support the students,
and every time they showed up,
they,
they were,
they delighted in the students.
You could tell they were delighting in the students and
taking lots of time with them to talk to them,
so.
It was really sounds wonderful,
yeah,
and for a while,
as you were talking about,
Barbara was the interim president of the Thunderbird School of Global Management,
um,
which
I think now is a unit of
the university
knowledge enterprise,
but as I said,
I'll look into that a little bit more,
but it's one of the schools of ASU because it has its own dean.
Yeah,
it's,
it's there,
so I don't think it's just under the enterprise,
um.
So,
can you tell me more about the,
the
Later relationship and that next connection with
the global leadership that they helped
create.
Yes,
well,
we,
sorry,
I'm just gonna have a little drink of water here.
Um,
we,
we kept the relationship with them going,
of course,
and it was easy to do.
They kept it up too.
Um
And
Something like um.
Must have been late 19.
It must have been the late 20 twenties.
Late 202010s,
you know,
sort of 2017,
2018.
We were having our,
we being Peggy
Nelson and,
and Kristen Herman and I were having our,
our annual summer meeting where we just
shot ideas back and forth with each other about what
what what we wanted to do with Barrett and what Barrett should
still try to be striving to become and stuff like that.
Those are great meetings,
by the way.
Lasted half a day.
We,
we'd go for lunch and then have another half day.
So,
so sometimes we had several day meetings in June and July,
just talking about the future of bear,
but in one of those meetings,
I was saying that
I thought there should be more of a,
of an international
experience for our students and presence
of programs,
and
we,
we kind of cooked up the whole idea of
Of Barrett Global,
then this is before we hired
um
anybody to,
to,
to head it,
of course.
But we also
knew that it might take some funding,
and we knew that we knew that one way we could,
one part of the program could be
supporting students with scholarships when they
went abroad for various experiences,
but the other part could be
bringing world leaders in
to
Today as you and Barrett as residents.
Scholars and residents sort of things where they could teach a course and give a,
give a general plenary lecture
to the whole university but also have
a short course if possible that they offered.
So,
sort of like the model that,
that the
Rhodes and Centennial lecturers had been in the past,
where they,
they had in the,
in the first years of my administration.
They had,
they had come for 3 or 4 days
and given little mini courses,
but that had devolved um because particularly the Rhodes family wanted to have
more big names and to get a bigger name we had to pay more and to pay more,
we couldn't,
we could no longer support
salaries over a week of
studies and support for
classes.
You know,
classes that the visiting person for
Rhodes,
for the Rhodes lectureship could,
could offer,
so those became
more just single shot,
wonderful talks,
but we wanted to set up a thing like the Rhodes and Centennial had originally been.
There was someone who was well-known,
who was an expert in their field who came in and was in residence
at Barrett,
um,
and.
By so doing,
we could expose the students to
new ideas,
totally new ideas from different countries,
different viewpoints,
but always from leaders.
And to do that we knew we,
we,
we would need to use um
Barbara's connections because she,
she,
she particularly had
after she had been the US ambassador to Finland,
actually even before that,
but she was already well known with all the leaders around the world.
She was part of this
global leaders.
Foundation,
I think it was called,
but it was,
it was a,
it was an
organization that you had to have been a prime minister or president of a country
to belong to,
um,
and it,
it,
it gave it,
it could be called in as a consulting group to any president or
prime minister of any country in the world that wanted to have advice,
and she was connected to that
in many ways,
and so we,
we,
we had some talks with her,
her and Craig.
About whether she could,
whether she was willing to do that.
She was extremely happy to do that.
And in fact,
she was always sort of leading us a little bit in saying,
hey,
I've got a great person that I think would be good to come for next year,
for next semester,
that sort of thing.
And she brought in people like the,
the first female defense minister for Finland,
the president of Latvia,
who was a woman who had been the president for 6 years or so,
and then just,
just had
stepped down,
I believe,
at the time,
or maybe she hadn't because she came with a lot of security
with her,
followed her around.
But
Anyway,
the point is,
during that time we also asked.
We,
we made an ask of the Barrett's,
well,
the whole university made an ask of the Barrett's for a 2nd $10 million
but part of that was
$2.5 million or $3 million for Barrett itself
to help
fund these,
these residencies and travels
associated with them and some of the scholarships for students to travel abroad.
So that was,
and that,
so that,
that,
that became
the second gift the Barretts gave to the,
to all of ASU because
half of,
half of it was given to the law school at the time,
I think.
Barbara has always been associated with the law school as well.
Excuse me.
Um,
well,
I went to some of those talks and,
and they were,
were good,
and a number of my students went and,
and
it's such a
unique opportunity.
So I'm really glad that you hatched that idea
with the team and that they supported it.
Yeah.
Well,
we were very happy with the way it worked out.
And we,
when we hired Jason,
he's been terrific and
He is sort of,
at the same time,
Mark Henderson was retiring
from being the Dean of Barrett at,
at um Poly.
And he had started this,
this um
global resolve
program of
students going out to other countries
and volunteering volunteer community support work.
In other countries,
and he wanted very much to have that keep going,
so as he was retiring,
he asked if,
if,
if Barrett could take that program over because it had been run
by him mostly out at Poli.
For
beginning 5 or 6 years,
I guess.
You know,
it may have been more than 5 or 6 years,
but it was at least 5 or 6 years,
and
So
we took it over.
Jason absorbed it into his bailiwick and
That's that's been another arm of the
international experience students can have now for,
for several years,
so they can either
learn about other countries and other issues by going out to them in volunteer work,
they can go
in travel scholarships that are supported to support their own kind of travel,
such as the um.
What was it?
Well,
it's got this funny name now,
but
it's,
it was an extension of the,
of the explorers,
the famous
explorers group in New York City.
Oh,
circumnavigators,
wasn't it?
Yes,
yes,
exactly.
That's that's what it was.
So he started
circumnavigators started with,
um.
Circumnavigator's Club that was a sub club of the one in New York City in Phoenix,
the one
that had had some bad experiences with giving
Giving money to support
circumnavigation of the globe to just any old
ASU student that had a couple of bad experiences,
so they asked,
they approached us and asked us if they could make it only for Barre students,
and we said,
sure you can,
that'd be wonderful.
And
then we,
we came up with the money to,
to fund a 2nd
student each year besides the one that the circumnavigators were funding,
and as the Circumnavigator Club in Phoenix died off,
almost literally,
I hate to say it's sort of lugubrious to say,
but the members were very old,
wonderful,
older guys
who slowly passed away,
and so
we sort of took it over and that,
I forget what
Jason calls it now,
but
it has some,
um,
Letter,
lettered
moniker now,
but
it stands I'll see if it can come to me,
but yeah,
it's not coming to the tip of my brain.
It's funny I remember the older thing more easily.
Yeah,
yeah,
but anyway,
that was also,
we,
you know,
Jason,
Jason has been great in leading the way towards other
programs that we develop with him as we talk to him
about what he thinks too.
He's been,
he's been,
he's been a great addition to Barrett.
So,
um,
so you mentioned,
um,
a,
a couple of things I'd like to follow up on or expand on since we're on the thread of
global
related things.
Perhaps you could
say more about what study abroad programs were like when you came and
how those shifted
or expanded while you were here for 19 years,
and we have a sense of it.
As you've mentioned,
the global resolve and,
and also we brought more international speakers in,
but maybe there's something else you'd like to,
to add in that regard.
Well,
what existed when I came was the special trips that that the faculty
had had already
devised in most cases,
well,
in several of the cases,
in every case where it was one of the
summer study abroad trips,
they had devised it,
of course,
each faculty member,
and they were very successful and very,
very well thought of and well subscribed by the students.
So those that existed and we continued to fund that.
We wanted,
we wanted to purposely fund that and expand it as we expanded the faculty.
So that,
that those were trips,
as you know,
I mean,
have they've been talked about by others in this history of Barrett sort of
exercise that we're doing now,
or should I talk about those?
Should you talk,
you,
you talk about those.
I mean it'd be better to interview a faculty member about those,
really.
Yeah,
I,
I want you to share whatever you'd like to share.
There has been a lot that has happened.
I don't know.
If you're
aware that we have a semester abroad now,
for instance,
Jackie is in
Milan and Joe O'Neill is in.
Rome,
and the students are spending half their time,
there's two groups of students spending half their time with each faculty member,
and then halfway
through the semester,
they go to the other city to be with the other faculty member.
That's fantastic,
that's wonderful.
You know,
it really warms my heart to hear this stuff because
one of the things that,
that really affected me in my whole life was the fact that my father,
who was a professor at Princeton,
where he had sabbaticals given to him every 5th year,
it was very rare.
Because the name sabbatical,
of course,
implies every 7th year
anyway,
if you're lucky,
and lots of the state universities don't even give sabbaticals,
or you have to apply for them and you get one every 20 years,
maybe on average.
So,
um,
but my father had,
had these,
these sabbaticals given to him,
which was half a year at full pay or a full year at
half pay with him having to get the rest of the pay,
sort of fairly standard.
Procedure once you,
once,
once the place is,
once the institution has has admitted that they would like
to give their faculty a sabbatical of any sort,
that's usually the way it works.
My father had these
every 5 years,
so
I had gone to 3 or 4 different nations,
but by the time I got to college,
starting when I was 3 or 4,
we'd,
we'd gone on one of my father's sabbaticals,
and he,
he very strongly believed,
very strongly believed that it was good for the whole family,
particularly,
particularly my sister and me.
To be,
to be taken to another country,
not just
a lot of faculty with sabbaticals just decide to take them
at their home institution and just do some quiet scholarly work,
sometimes not even leaving their office where they've been anyway.
My father believed very strongly that we should go
to other countries,
learn other cultures.
And he could immerse himself with the science of the people he was visiting,
but we could immerse ourselves in the culture of the country.
So I had been to Switzerland,
um,
Oxford,
England,
um,
Naples,
Italy and Berkeley,
California,
before I even entered college.
Each of those was for 1 year,
or maybe in some cases half a year plus the summer,
so it would be 8 months.
But,
and I knew that it had really,
really affected me.
It affected me in totally positive ways.
My sister feels the same way when I interview her,
talk to her,
even now,
we both feel the same way.
So I,
I'm a big,
huge believer.
I wanted to make sure that the bears didn't just
hang out in Arizona.
When we first started the
The Great American Cities Program,
which was
instigated at first by um
B
Abby Longdon.
Yes.
Addie,
yeah,
Addie,
Addie Longdon,
yes,
who,
who worked at Barrett for a while,
but she,
she had this brilliant idea that we could go to,
to,
to American cities for 3 or 4 day visits,
stay in youth hostels,
so it was cheap.
It was never more than about $5000 or $600 for each student anyway.
We had scholarships for those,
but,
um,
When
And those were,
were.
And then and,
and expanded.
It was really,
really very popular,
but one of the things that stuck with me was I talked to one of the students
on one of the first trips that went to New York City after we started this program,
and she came back
and I said,
well,
how was it?
How did you like it?
And she said,
oh,
it was,
it was
life changing,
and I said,
really,
in what ways?
And she said,
well,
I had never even,
this is,
this is a student who was sort of 18 or 19 years old,
I remember.
She said,
I never left Arizona,
she said,
and,
and I've never been on an airplane.
I've never been on a boat,
and,
and she meant by a boat,
they took a boat to see the Statue of Liberty from
the tip of Manhattan.
But,
but,
and she said,
and then,
and then she said,
and then of course there was,
there was New York City for crying out loud.
And I,
I realized
then that that actually Barrett students,
sometimes there's a,
there's a subcategory of Barrett student who's brilliant.
did well in high school,
but is not really privileged enough to have
had family to take them everywhere the way I had been taken by my family,
of course.
Um,
and I wanted,
I wanted very much to,
to,
to have one of the major themes that we developed at Barrett B,
exposure to foreign,
to different
places,
even,
even different places in the US,
of course,
and that's why we expanded the Great American Cities program,
but also
to other countries.
To try to and bring and bring leaders and,
and idea people from other countries in to,
to,
to meet us and our students.
So
that's sort of the,
the,
the theoretical background,
philosophical background for why
we expanded all those sorts of programs and why I'm so happy that
you've kept expanding.
I'm very happy to hear that you've,
you've
now you have some programs that are semester long programs.
That's wonderful to hear.
Yes,
and
I'm glad that you brought up the great American cities because
we can experience many different
cultures and ways of life just within
our giant country,
and
I
don't know if this happened while you were still in Barrett,
but we also have
faculty
doing work and taking students on,
like,
borderland.
Uh,
excursions for even just a long weekend to help raise their awareness around
certain kinds of issues even closer to home than the
great American cities
did.
Yes,
that it did start when I was there.
It started because
we wanted to support that as well.
I mean that was,
that was a conscious move to do that.
So,
um,
I'm very happy to,
to,
to
say,
to hear that those are still going on also,
of course.
Yeah,
the
Other thing I wanted to follow up on was something you had said about
how
the Rhodes lecture
changed over time
at ASU.
And just for the record,
if anybody doesn't know,
it's called the John J.
Rhodes Chair in Public Policy and American Institutions lecture.
And
Not just about that lecture,
but.
I'd like your thoughts,
your memories,
your insights about
what you thought about the Centennial
and Rhodes lecture series when you got here,
and what they maybe meant to you,
how they shifted,
etc.
Well,
I,
I had run a big lecture series at Swarthmore College
when I was the associate provost of the college.
So I,
I,
I was already a believer in bringing really interesting people in.
We had Bill McKibben,
I don't know if you know who he is,
but he's a great
environmental.
Environmental activist,
um,
from New York,
from,
he hangs out really in the Adirondacks,
but
Adirondack Mountains in New York State,
but
Um,
I had already brought him in.
Two great,
too great,
um.
Applause,
I guess you'd say,
at Swarthmore.
So I already liked the idea of speaker series,
and when I got here,
I found out,
lo and behold,
we had these two wonderfully endowed,
already present
speaker series that had been given to Barrett.
The Centennial was,
was actually money that was raised
in honor of ASU's centennial.
Which was,
you know,
Oh,
well,
let's see,
1985 would have been 100 years.
OK,
so yeah,
I was hesitating because I wasn't sure whether ASU was older than the state,
but it is,
I think.
So,
so,
um,
the state's centennial was something like,
I think the state was in
1912 or 202014,
but ASU was founded in 1885 as a territorial normal school.
Yeah,
so that,
that's what they were celebrating,
and at the time they were celebrating the centennial of ASU.
Somebody started raising money
and
um
actually no,
it wasn't that it's called the Flynn Foundation Centennial
lecture because the Flynn Foundation gave this money,
the kernel of it,
the,
the core of it of about $200,000 or $250,000
to ASU in honor of its centennial.
That's how it was.
So,
so
that,
that existed and that,
that was,
they,
they.
When
the Flynn Foundation gave that money,
they,
they only stipulated that someone who's an interesting
speaker slash leader.
At the national level,
be brought in
to give a talk to the whole university
once a year.
And the Rhodes,
the John J.
Rhodes lectureship or chairship,
which by the way,
the use of the word chair indicates what it was once because it was once a chair
who came in and had the chair and,
and had it sometimes for the whole semester,
sometimes for at least a couple of weeks,
and had had a short course
lectureship or,
or sometimes um
just sort of once a week lecture flying in,
but for the whole semester,
um,
but.
As,
as,
as a chair,
as you'd expect a chair to be as a professor,
uh,
a teacher,
and a teacher of a course,
so,
and that was money that was given by the Rhodes family in honor of
John J.
Rhodes,
who of course was a famous congressman
in the United States Congress and who
was one of the people who,
who led Nixon to resign
at,
at a crucial point
in his,
in his presidency,
but
Anyway,
um,
these two things existed.
They were both,
they had both.
Been
um accruing money,
I guess.
Because people had continued to give at least to the Rhodes lectureship,
and maybe the centennial was just a straight gift from,
from the Flint Foundation that it was just accruing interest,
but
they both were 20,000 to $300,000
as their base,
so they were spinning off.
You know,
$10,000 20,000 dollars
just in interest each year.
And so,
um,
They were,
they were,
we were able to pay
speaker fees for people who were pretty well known.
Centennial was never more than just a speaker who came in for two or three days.
We would arrange visits to classes,
visits,
we would arrange visits.
We would always advertise them because we felt it was our responsibility,
even though
both of these had been given before I came in '03
to bear it to administer.
We felt it was important that they both,
they both.
We're,
when,
when we brought the,
the,
when we brought these people in,
they,
they had a chance to,
to meet
with people across the whole university,
so we always advertise who it was,
who it was,
we,
we'd write to.
Peggy
was very good at usually
knowing who might particularly be interested in the speakers we had chosen
in other colleges or other departments
and advertising their,
their,
their presence
so that they could
meet with,
with people's classes in the,
in the larger ASU each time.
Particularly with the centennial,
because that centennial was never
really a lecture,
it was a lectureship,
not a chair,
or,
or not meant to be a course that was taught.
The Rhodes lecture though,
which also could bring in,
you could use its interests each year
to bring in really well-known people and,
and
those people
were stipulated by the gift that they,
they involve great American institutions,
institutions that were,
that were seen as
important to the,
to the development and the evolution in the history of the country.
As John Jay.
Rhodes himself was,
so,
um,
those,
but those when I first came,
we were,
we were picking someone who could come in for a couple of weeks or
even a month worth of
visits
and
have a chair.
Dedicated to them,
an office
which was the centennial lecturer didn't usually have.
But,
um,
an office because if their presence was going to be
as a teacher for several weeks or even a month or so,
then they needed to have and then they of
course needed an office to interact with students from,
so,
um.
That's,
that's what,
that's what the roads was like at the time.
Now the roads changed,
the centennial hasn't changed really.
It's still the same
wonderful opportunity to bring in a
really great person,
uh,
and the greatness could be defined in any way for the centennial pretty much,
but,
um,
but for the roads,
it's still,
we,
we've,
we,
we've maintained the
connection to.
Great Americans who have
Particularly
been
successful
at promoting.
The welfare of the people in journalism
or poli politics or
or or sort of the public sphere in some way or other.
However,
the Rhodes family,
who was intimately involved with choosing
who the Rhodes speaker would be each year.
Began to ask after maybe
2010 or so,
um,
whether we could have
people who were better known coming in.
Now the the trouble with that is to get someone like Condoleezza Rice,
um,
oops,
oh,
sorry,
that was just my my computer beeped at me.
To get someone like Condoleezza Rice,
she charges $200,000 for to speak.
Um,
usually,
and so,
um,
if we wanted to have someone,
we,
we got her,
but that's,
she's a different story.
We got her as a special visitor with Barbara's help,
but that I can go back and talk to you about that,
but,
but
she never came as a rose lecturer,
but
To,
to use the Rhodes endowment to get someone like that.
We had to not,
we had to stop having it be
a whole month residency.
Excuse me,
I just have to.
Take your time.
That little sip of water,
um,
so.
So the Rhodes,
when the Rhodes family wanted to have
more prominent,
prominently,
obviously named
people come in,
because we had started,
we started finding good people but who were not so well known,
who could come for a month or so
because they,
they,
their schedules allowed it,
but the,
the more famous people couldn't come for that amount of time,
of course,
or they could only if they were paid a huge amount of money.
So we changed the roads,
the roads sort of changed to be more like the centennial in that sense.
And although it's still called the John J.
Rhodes Chair.
Um,
and we,
we,
and because
even with the centennial model,
we made these people available for 3 or 4 days around the campus,
and they still give a public lecture and they could go to visit other,
other classes besides just Barrett Honors classes.
Um,
so it was still,
it's still a very good
and useful
endowed
lectureship,
but it,
it,
it changed its nature a little bit,
and Ted Humphrey
was,
was sort of displeased with that,
I think,
because he had,
he had envisioned it when he first talked to the Rhodeses about,
about it.
When they started talking to him about,
I don't know who initiated that
interaction,
but it was,
it was always
tended to the honors college,
so Ted was involved.
I think Ted really liked the idea of having a
famous person come in and be able to interact with the students in,
in,
in a less formal way over a longer period of time,
like a classroom,
and I,
I,
I sort of,
certainly
spiritually agreed with that,
but
I also could see that the,
that the roses were.
We're wanting to have people who are more prominent come in,
so we changed it to be more like the centennial format of only 2 or 3 day visit.
Well,
it'll be interesting to see if or how it changes in the future.
Uh,
do any particular speakers in either series stand
out in your memory besides Condoleezza Rice?
Well,
who wasn't even really a Rhodesman.
Condoleezza Rice was a world leader brought in by the Barrett funded,
funded special group,
special leaders series.
In fact,
she was the,
the first or 2nd 1 of those,
I think.
And that was an interesting case where that was,
it was absolutely typical of how Barbara can help the honors college.
Barbara knows her.
She,
she,
she usually charges 200,000,
she only would charge,
she said she would,
she would do it for less,
only 100,000,
I think it was,
and,
and then,
and then
she,
she also only always travels first class.
Um,
and Barbara paid for one of those flights,
I believe.
So it was,
it was,
it was engineered by Barbara,
and she was one of the best speakers we'd ever had.
Students absolutely loved her
and her speech.
I was,
I,
I was the sort of
just the mediator of the speech,
so I heard it,
and it was,
it was a fantastic speech.
Um,
that was in 2017 that she came,
just if that helps us
remember.
Yeah,
I think it was,
it was,
it was the first year of Trump's first term.
So that was also the year that uh another global leader,
as you mentioned before,
the former defense minister of Finland,
um,
and Undersecretary of the
general of the United Nations came in that same year that Condoleezza Rice came in.
Right,
right,
right.
Those are all global leaders brought in by the Barrett funded.
Uh,
programs,
so those were,
that was,
it was absolutely incredible,
but they weren't,
they weren't
Rhodes or Centennials speakers.
Yeah,
so any Rhodes or Centennial speakers stand out to you?
Oh yes,
very,
very much.
Um,
well,
I mean,
first of all,
um,
Jules Feiffer is one of my favorite people of all time.
See,
the thing,
the thing about Rhodes and Centennial was
a small group
of people like Barrett,
who has always included me,
got to pick who these people were.
And it was wonderful,
it was a chance to bring in anyone that
that one liked,
um,
because
luckily we all,
we all,
a small group of people who were sort of the chair of the faculty,
um,
the troika that was running,
Barrett,
Kristen,
Peggy and me,
and just a few other people
were almost always in agreement each year about what we should do.
We were very careful to balance it with
by gender.
By area of topics,
um,
particularly the centennial,
because the centennial was,
was open to any area,
so we,
we,
we were trying very liberally to be balanced in all sorts of ways,
and we were,
we were successful at that.
But within that,
within those strictures,
we could pick,
it was,
it was like a
carte blanche to bring in anyone you wanted,
and we had this huge endowment behind it,
basically,
so,
so
as a payment for just one lecture,
it was still a very good deal for the people coming and visiting,
so we could,
we could attract really good people.
We had Jules Feiffer,
we had,
um,
Edward Albee.
My mother was really,
really jealous of me for that.
She,
she always,
she was an English teacher in high school and
she always taught Albee plays and she loved them.
I got him to sign a
copy of his most recent play for her,
but,
um,
he was,
these people were fantastic.
I mean,
you can look at the list,
it's it's really a wonderful list of.
Of
some of them activists in certain environmental areas,
but others
just famous people.
Yes,
the centennial in 2024 was Martin Luther King Jr.s daughter,
Bernice King,
and that was a,
a very
meaningful one for folks to attend to.
And it inspired me
to add a Martin Luther King
Jr.
text to my spring
human event class,
272.
And,
you know,
I,
I wish I'd done it sooner,
but I think that kind of interaction
between
having
Different kinds of thinkers come in and
When faculty and students go to these,
it
inspires them to look deeper or broader than they had before.
Yeah,
absolutely,
and that's the whole idea
of any speaker series.
In fact,
when I first came in '03.
There,
the Rose and Centennial existed,
but there weren't any of these others,
not,
not the global leaders or anything else like that,
so I started the honors lecture series by myself,
because I,
and that was supposed to be just other
really interesting people from ASU or maybe from,
from Phoenix itself,
but mostly from ASU,
other faculty,
just so,
so,
so that our faculty and other faculty at
the big ASU could,
could.
Understand what what what what really good work was
going on just at ASU by ASU faculty,
and when that started,
it was 3 or 4 speakers each semester,
because there wasn't,
there wasn't any other lecture series at the time,
except for Rose and Centennial,
which were one-offs in the fall and the spring,
of course,
um,
so I'm,
I'm,
I'm sort of proud of starting that,
although it's sort of fallen by the wayside
just because we've got so many other gloriously
wonderful people coming in anyway now.
But the whole idea,
again,
the spirit behind all of these was
for the travel,
it was the wonderful education that travel can give you,
and it's the same thing goes for the,
for the,
for,
for just a single
set of lectures that you can,
that you can go to regularly
or,
or choose when to go to that that can stimulate you the way,
the way,
for instance,
Martin Luther King's daughter stimulated you,
but
if you,
I wanted to set up a framework where
People would be coming in regularly to give those kinds of talks,
just to,
just,
just for all of our edification.
Well,
good job on that,
and perhaps you could expand
a little bit more about a difference between the Centennial
lecture series and the Rhodes
lecture series,
which is the broadsides.
What do you remember or know about the
broadsides that happen in connection with the centennial?
Well,
that was the broadsides were,
were already.
A tradition of the,
of the roads,
wasn't it?
No,
it's actually connected to the centennial.
OK,
so,
so that was,
that was,
that was started by,
by Ted,
I assume.
I'm gonna ask him
specifically about the broadsides next time we speak,
but I just
wondered if you had any insight on them,
and the process of them,
or
how the speaker
maybe
felt honored,
or if they didn't like sitting there and signing them,
cause sometimes a number of them are signed.
Oh yeah,
there's,
there's about 50 that are usually made.
And something like 50 signed by the by the speaker.
That was the tradition that was there.
I have copies of almost every one of those that that would happen during my
19 years and they're they're wonderful.
They're,
I mean,
the artists who made them.
was a terrific,
a terrific artist,
first of all.
So,
so they were,
they had,
they had lots of,
of
worth just because of their,
their beauty.
Then there was usually a,
a quote that was picked out from the person's work,
and I don't know whether the artist picked that
out or whether it was picked out by the,
by the speaker.
I don't remember how that happened because it was sort of separately negotiated.
And they,
they were sort of secretly signing the 50.
Broadsides,
um,
before they,
before they left,
but I never was in on the signing too much,
except for when I had to sign them myself,
of course,
at the end,
but um,
It was,
so,
so the quote,
the beauty of the piece itself,
and then the fact that that that they commemorated a
a famous person coming to give a talk.
So that's,
that was Jules Feiffer's
one that I have a copy of
has his signature.
Some,
some of these things are probably worth quite a lot of
money now,
although that's not the purpose of them.
I would never sell them,
but we put them up in the hallway to sort of show students.
Uh,
who,
what sort of people have been coming in for the centennial.
So I think that the tradition was a terrific one.
I did not,
I cannot claim credit for that starting,
I think it must have been Ted
or someone else who started the,
the tradition of having a broadside at all,
but the broadsides were,
were really valuable on multiple levels,
I feel.
They,
they were and are and,
and could be.
Again,
in the sense that
at the time of the event,
for anyone listening to this who hasn't been to a centennial lecture,
there's
often a
reception beforehand,
and
one of the broadsides,
which is
kind of a hand printed or printed in an old style,
not mass produced,
but on
Very thick,
um,
ragged edge paper
that somebody
has hand lovingly printed a limited series of
is framed in some really lovely way,
and then it's
unveiled
at the
centennial lecture before the lecture begins.
So there's a,
a nice little bit of ritual or ceremony in that moment,
at least.
Absolutely,
I totally agree.
It's a wonderful,
wonderful tradition.
And I
I would like to talk more to you and
Ted about some of the ways those broadsides
may have been used in relationship building or,
or could be used
in the future,
because now we have
over 30 years' worth of broadsides,
and
I have been through them,
and I'm still working my way through them.
And there was a time in our history where we made as many as 150 of them,
and other times where we made as few as only 10.
And
that's interesting to think about how those can be used,
um,
as gifts or for relationship building or education,
etc.
There's a,
a richness there
that I think over
Barrett's history has gone
up and down over the years and,
and we're in a spell right now where we're maybe not
utilizing
or leveraging everything around the centennial series and
these broadsides as much as we possibly could.
That's probably in part due to the,
to the,
um,
the lack of continuity we've had in our director of development,
you know,
that,
that's the person who is usually,
when,
when
when you say that they,
they were used sometimes in the past as gifts,
they certainly were,
and that was usually by,
it was initiated by the person who was the director of development to,
to give to one of the
donors in honor of,
in honor of their birthday or some,
some,
some
aspects of their life,
but,
but.
was going through the broadsides to pick someone or
a quote or a person who they knew that
that that that donor probably liked
particularly,
and that has been done in the past,
I know,
but it's,
it's a great wealth of,
it's sort of a treasure trove of
items that could be used that way,
but,
but I think the,
the interruptions we've had in the director of development position
have prevented someone from getting that into being a tradition itself.
Thank you for mentioning that.
Mark,
I
had spoken to a director of development about this before and you're right.
I mean,
she was excited.
She didn't know
we really had
some that we could share and
before she and I got to
dig into it more,
she
was.
Headhunted away to the
Mayo Clinic.
So,
now,
now yet a new person is coming in,
and I haven't had a chance to,
to meet that person yet.
Well,
if you,
if you're the connection
between that kind of person and
you're the one who's,
I mean,
I didn't know anyone had gone through all of them the way you have,
that,
that's really great that you do,
you,
you're probably the very valuable person
in terms of the knowledge of those broadsides to,
to all of Barrett,
and you should be the one who talks to the,
To the next director of development to tell them about them.
Thank you.
I'll,
um,
I
will do that.
I just want to,
to note
that
I can't believe how time has flown by.
We're
approaching an hour in this conversation,
and there's so many things
I didn't get to ask you about.
We can talk for a bit longer in this conversation,
especially,
it might be useful if there's anything else we
can think about on the themes that we've already been
talking about,
about global education and
lecture series and community outreach and relationship building,
but I hope that you'll be willing to
please schedule another conversation because I've got quite a list of
achievements that you've done and things I'd like to.
To
help,
um,
the current and future generations appreciate more about your time at Barrett.
Of course,
I'd be happy to talk any,
any amount of future times.
Thank you for that willingness.
Sure,
of course.
So,
In terms of the honors lecture series,
the roads,
the centennial,
anything else
about those topics or
global resolve,
global education in general
that comes to mind?
We've,
I've sort of explained the
philosophy behind
wanting to have those programs already.
And,
and I think we have covered a lot of them
actually.
Good.
There's not,
yeah,
there's not another major one out there that I don't think we've covered.
So I think what
may be
useful for us to do then is to punctuate
this conversation so that we've got
a nice nugget on these topics,
and I'll save some of my questions.
For
another time,
except that,
you know,
since we did start talking a little bit about
development and
fundraising and relationship building and
perhaps using
the broadsides
to
that end again in the future,
I wonder if you could talk about
campaign 2020,
and I know 2020 was when
the COVID-19 pandemic hit.
I also know that that's,
you know,
a,
a few years later,
you retired,
but for,
for
a few years before
campaign 2020 ended with
in that
COVID year,
I remember you being
Active and creative
in
the campaign 2020 effort.
So,
maybe you could
say a little bit more about that,
and you had
some
particular goals
for it,
and
I can remind you of what those are,
but I would love to hear them in your voice,
uh,
and whatever you want to share about it.
Well,
maybe you could tell me what you think they were
just to get me started.
Based on the 30th anniversary oral
history that was done,
067 years ago now,
you talked about
4 goals to further support faculty through funding,
student scholarship support,
building and staffing a student success center.
And creating the global initiatives program
to increase the exposure of Barrett's students to global issues,
which we've kind of talked about
in other ways but not using that exact term.
So,
thoughts on those,
um,
four
things in particular,
and I'm sure you were doing much more,
but those are the ones that I know about.
Well,
the one that I,
that was sort of taking up a lot of our
time at that time was the Student Success Center,
which we almost had
built.
We had,
we had an architectural
drawings for it and
thought we had money for it,
but that,
that was the one that was connected
to some extent to.
Um,
to Tom Lewis.
And his,
and his funds.
So,
and that,
that's,
that's another story,
you know,
as you know,
um.
So that didn't,
that ended up not going anywhere
in the end.
Well,
we do have a student success center now,
so I'm sure that those,
those efforts mattered because we have a space over in
Vista del Sol that we call the Student Success Center,
and things are going on there all the time.
That's good,
that's good to know.
I didn't know that was still true,
because when I left,
We had just,
we had just opened that with,
I mean,
it was called the,
the Lewis Student Success Center,
but then,
um,
Tom became disaffected,
I guess,
with
the way things were going
and stopped supporting
Barrett,
um,
with his funds,
so I didn't know what had happened to that,
so that's good to hear that it's still going,
because I mean,
the idea of it,
the principle behind it is absolutely terrific.
But it is,
yeah,
lots of personal development
classes are happening and
That space is used for a variety of things in addition
to
individual personal development kinds of things.
So,
who's overseeing the center,
do you know?
Not off the top of my head.
I don't think it has the same kind of format that it did when you
and Tom envisioned it,
but the,
the seeds that
you two and others worked on together definitely
took enough root that regardless of the vagaries of,
of
What happens with
development
kinds of monies,
this center and a number of
4 credit classes are still happening,
and non-credit kinds of things as well.
Yeah,
well,
those,
those classes were terrific ideas,
and I'm,
I'm glad to hear that they were retained.
And I assume the um
The faculty teaching them were retained too,
because there were
2 or 3 faculty that were supported by the Lewis funds,
which were a mixture of our funds and Lewis's funds.
They have been retained,
yes.
Yeah,
and you told me the last time we had an interview that,
that,
um,
that 3 of the faculty were still
being,
still on Barrett's books,
right?
Yeah,
yeah,
and I think those were
the,
the unique 3,
and any other classes were kind of a
Taught sometimes by the faculty that were here before the center was founded.
So
there was some,
some faculty involved,
and then we hired those new people and they have been retained.
Well,
the thing,
the thing that I would say
is most important about this whole story
is that the concept that students need to be
shepherded more and shown how to be successful later in life.
With the skills they learn in college is is the core of what Tom believed,
and I totally supported it.
I still would totally support.
In other words,
I think the thing that he hit on
was that,
um,
as he said,
you know,
students,
students can go through 4 years of college if they've planned out,
if they're,
say,
an engineering student or a biology student and they're wanting to
be a nurse or a PhD in biology or an engineer,
they can be very nose to the grindstone.
And be very successful,
very,
if,
if they're smart,
better students,
they're going to be successful,
getting A's and everything,
and looking like
total success,
but then,
but they're not being,
they're missing out on some of the other
sorts of things that might make them successful people.
And that's what we were trying to focus on with the courses that were offered,
and he,
he,
he had this,
it was,
it was
a lot of these ideas came from Tom himself,
and that's the part about Tom that I hope is not discredited
by the fact that he,
he withdrew his funds and and sort of
disappeared from the picture a little bit because
they're very good ideas.
Yeah they are.
Yeah,
and you know,
since we're on the,
oh,
go ahead and finish your thought.
That's OK.
I,
I was pretty much finished.
Um,
this is just reminding me
that
You were approached so many times over the years by different people,
nationally and internationally,
who had started to take notice of Barrett
and how they could achieve something similar.
So,
perhaps you could talk a little bit about,
uh,
um,
how you helped directly or indirectly,
get an honors college started or,
or
named
by Tom Lewis in Kentucky,
wasn't it?
Yes,
it was,
but it was,
I mean,
the Barrett diaspora is what I call it.
Um,
the Barrett diaspora is a huge,
I,
I think it's had a huge effect on education in American public universities,
really.
I mean,
there,
there are lots of honors colleges that started and,
and were designed directly after Barrett,
designed or headed in there with their first dean by a person who was a dean at Barrett
or a faculty member who had been at Barrett.
In in some administrative role.
And then there were exact copies of,
of,
of Barrett,
which is what the University of Kentucky one is very much like.
So I could go on for,
for hours about those sorts of things,
but Purdue started an honors college because
they thought that Barrett was a great model.
Um,
Portland State.
which was headed by
The vice president,
the vice president for
For,
for development,
I guess there.
Excuse me,
for research and development,
let me just take a little more water.
You know,
I think I said I'm using my voice so much more
than I usually do each day.
Um,
talking like this,
um,
well,
we can wrap up soon,
and I appreciate your efforts.
No,
that's OK.
That's OK.
It's,
it's OK.
Uh,
let me just finish this thought that,
um,
Purdue.
Purdue
was,
was uh designed after
a visiting committee that included me that went to it and told them what
they needed to do if they wanted to have a really good honors college.
Portland State was the same way,
they didn't have any honors college and they were trying to start one,
and that was Jonathan,
um.
He'd been,
he'd been a vice president for research here,
but
what was his last name?
I don't remember his last name,
but
was it Fink?
Yes,
Jonathan Fink,
exactly.
He,
he knew what Barrett was like,
and so he wanted to start a Barrett there,
and he,
he,
he brought us up there for as consultants for that reason.
Um,
I,
I want,
I mean,
the influence that we've had,
we being Peggy and Christian and me.
But,
but a lot of it,
a lot of times for these sorts of visits,
I was on the visiting committee.
At Colorado State,
um,
The influence we've had has been huge,
and,
and the diaspora is served not only by the ideas of how you
design an honors college
as they move out into the country.
Like,
like the Kentucky story,
but also the people who come from Bar and then go to these places,
including most recently,
of course,
um.
The,
the dean of the Pittsburgh University of Pittsburgh Honors College who is
for the former vice dean here.
Oh,
that's right,
Nicola Foote.
Yes,
Nicola.
So,
so even if something exists,
the person goes there,
suddenly there's a,
there's a
donor who wants to name the honors college there,
and a lot of the ideas that were
successful here are implemented at these other places.
Um,
so it's,
it's,
and this includes international places too.
I mean,
we've had an influence on the honors
program or the equivalent of the residential college program at.
At um
some of the European universities
and some of the Chinese universities from after committees came to visit us
here
and wanted to implement some of the things we were doing here at their institutions,
sometimes inviting us to go,
but sometimes just taking the ideas and,
and implementing them themselves.
So
there's
the whole idea,
I mean,
the thing I'm most proud of actually of all is that
What this has done is it's brought a much higher quality of education
to public university
good scholars
who otherwise would would have never had the chance to
take part in programs like some of these,
and I think that's
been a huge influence
on,
I mean,
if I want to sound the most pompous that I can,
a huge influence on American education,
American college education.
Well,
it doesn't sound pompous to me,
it sounds accurate and descriptive.
Both you and
Ted Humphrey,
and
Peggy and Kristen,
and,
and the different people that have been
involved in this
endeavor from the beginning,
all have
made ripple effects into
the present and the future because
Um,
if Ted hadn't
put this honors college,
managed to pull it together at ASU,
and,
and
just the whole
founding of it,
how it developed,
etc.
has definitely
changed the face of Arizona State University,
as well as
all these other places that you've mentioned.
Oh yeah,
and even when someone like Mary Ingram Waters goes to Nevada.
She's having the same that even though the,
the,
the honors college may have existed before,
when you,
when they get someone who knows from the inside how to,
how it runs,
that's another example of the seeping out
of good ideas and good and good programs
from Barrett to other places.
It's,
it's really
very important in,
in,
in the
development of honors work across the whole country,
I think.
It is,
and you know,
maybe.
The amount of attention or the,
the brightness
of what Barrett offers
will be
seen
differently because when you have a,
a first super bright candle,
it shows up in the room.
A lot more than when you have 100 candles in that dark room.
And so
the ripple effect is,
is happening more and more,
even if
there's fewer people perhaps coming to bear it to ask for advice directly,
it's because there's
a number of other good colleges,
honors colleges now.
As a result of,
of the,
the two degrees of separation,
the 3 degrees of separation that basically grandchildren of this,
the children and grandchildren of Barrett and
other of the very early honors colleges.
Yes,
that's a good way to put it,
the F2s,
as we say in biology.
So the second generations,
yeah,
and,
and you know,
I think a good time to,
to promote this would certainly be
the upcoming national,
the,
the.
The hero meeting that's,
that's about to happen at
Barrett Tempe,
you know about that,
right?
I do.
I've proposed a panel for it,
but what are your thoughts on it?
Well,
I mean,
it's a good,
it's a good chance if you have a panel already
proposed,
maybe
whether there's one proposed or whether there's a special program,
that there should be something that's,
that's done,
I think,
that shows.
Sort of,
sort of a,
basically a chart in one way or another of
the diaspora of ideas and honors colleges from Barrett,
because
that would be,
that would be a chance to get
that seen by people who are interested in honors from all over the country anyway.
Oh,
that's such a good idea.
Unfortunately,
I don't,
that's not
related to what I proposed to panel on,
and
I don't know if,
um,
it,
it's too late to propose panels now,
but like you said,
maybe something.
Could be prepared by a staff member
who,
who talks to,
to you.
Maybe you could start generating a list of everything that you remember.
Maybe there's time to put something together to help
show that diaspora.
I wish we'd had the thought sooner to make sure it could happen,
but maybe it still can.
Yeah,
well,
isn't the meeting,
the meeting's scheduled for the fall,
isn't it?
It's in May.
Oh,
it's in May.
OK,
so it's coming up very soon.
Yeah.
OK,
well,
I can talk to Tara about it.
OK,
well,
for now,
why don't we
wrap up this conversation,
and as I said
earlier,
I'm so grateful that we got your insights
on global education and the lecture series and
some insights on student success.
And
the diaspora
of
Barrett,
and I look forward to when we talk next.
That'd be great.
I,
I look forward to it also as well.
Thank you,
Mark.
Bye-bye.
OK,
bye-bye.