WEBVTT

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Hello,

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this is Maira Khan

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interviewing Doctor John Lynch on November 29th at 10:0:00

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a.m. in Sage North in the Barrett Complex.

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This interview is part of Barrett Oral History Project.

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Our goal is to preserve a record of

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Barrett's history in honor of our 30th anniversary.

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Thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with us and share your experience.

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So I'll begin with the questions.

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Can you please begin by telling me how you got started with Barrett?

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OK,

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so I.

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I'll start with how I ended up at ASU.

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I ended up at ASU in 1994,

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um,

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doing a postdoc.

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My PhD

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was in evolutionary biology.

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And I did a postdoc

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in

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the Department of Zoology,

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which is now

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School of Life Sciences,

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so it's changed.

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Um,

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and

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after a couple of years of doing the postdoc,

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I ended up getting a position

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as an academic advisor,

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but also as a faculty associate teaching classes

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for a program called the Interdisciplinary Humanities Program,

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which is really cool because it had folks

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who were interested in sort of modern cultural theory as well as uh

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Sort of old style classics and all that sort of stuff,

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um.

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And it actually turned into film and media studies

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through a long,

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strange process.

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Um,

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So I ended up teaching there,

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and then in 2000 a job came up,

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a job came up for Barrett's

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and I had a good experience with Barrett's students.

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I had been,

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at that time,

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I had

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A couple of Bard students that I was directing their honors thesis.

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Um,

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so I decided to apply,

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and

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18 years later,

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here I am.

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Alright,

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thank you.

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Um,

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so what differences do you see between teaching

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then and then teaching now with Barrett students?

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Oh,

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boy.

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Uh,

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well,

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the biggest thing I think were class sizes.

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Class sizes back then.

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were a lot smaller.

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I mean,

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they were,

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some classes would only be 12 students,

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but they were tapped out at 15.

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Um,

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and we were in old Irish hall,

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and the classrooms weren't that good,

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and it was kind of like,

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you know.

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It was what it was.

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Um.

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And

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Really,

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I mean,

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a lot of what we've done has stayed the same

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in many senses.

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uh,

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I mean,

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the Socratic seminar

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based on primary texts.

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Uh,

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all that sort of good stuff.

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Um.

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There's some not so good stuff as far as the students would be concerned,

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of course,

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are the papers,

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uh,

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but those have stayed more or less,

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you know,

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the same since.

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If anything has changed

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substantially,

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it's actually,

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we sort of drifted away from the sort of notional

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idea that this was a sort of a great books course

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that.

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Every written text had to be

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You know,

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usually by some

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dead white guy or something like that

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and

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just.

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It's sort of a semi-conscious process,

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people started bringing in

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greater diversity of voices,

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whether it's people of color or underrepresented voices.

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Uh,

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so I think it's fair to say that if you looked at the syllabi.

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Say,

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from this past semester in

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171,

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and certainly definitely in 272.

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Um,

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You'd you'd notice a fairly radical difference in.

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The sorts of readings that were being used,

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the sorts of voices that are being heard,

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uses of er

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Art and imagery and and and and video,

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for example,

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and even music.

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some jazz pieces,

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for example,

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that probably wouldn't have occurred

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20 years ago.

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Um,

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so the,

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the student,

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I,

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I,

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I think that was sort of incremental,

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that was just like it slowly happened.

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It wasn't like everybody woke up one day and said,

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well,

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everybody woke up,

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woke,

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as it were,

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and suddenly decided what they wanted to do was change everything and

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Let's do this.

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It just,

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it just happened.

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So I,

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I,

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I,

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it,

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it's kind of interesting

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to look at.

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Um,

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in that sense,

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because.

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The framework,

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the papers,

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the way discussions are run,

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all that sort of stuff stays the same,

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but the content has shifted in,

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I think,

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very interesting ways.

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So what do you think Barrett students can or how do you think they can benefit from

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being exposed to more diverse pieces in their human event courses?

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Uh

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I won't pause for too long.

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Um,

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I think,

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I,

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I think one of the things about it is,

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so I,

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I grew up in Ireland and so therefore I was exposed

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to

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that beast that's known as European culture,

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you know,

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with a lot of different voices and a lot of um

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Ah,

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different cultural influences and languages and,

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and

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by the time I was.

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Certainly,

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you know,

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uh,

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20

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I,

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I'd,

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you know,

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been through a lot of Europe and spent time there working and stuff like that.

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And I think that gives you a certain perspective,

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right,

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um,

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and certainly at the start of

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when I started.

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The students were largely,

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I'll be honest about this,

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sort of fairly

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well to do white kids.

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Ah,

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the vast,

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vast majority of them.

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Um,

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and they had one sort of perspective,

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and

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You know,

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walking them slowly through something like

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uh the Dow Jing or Confucius or the bag of a Gita or something like that,

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uh,

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was an interesting experience.

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Um.

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So

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I,

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I,

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I guess to

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get to your question,

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I will do it eventually,

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is that I,

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I,

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I think it's,

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it's a way of giving a certain amount of cultural perspective,

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a diverse

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perspective that I think particularly.

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Without wishing to get too political about this,

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given the current political climate is a very good thing.

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Um,

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I don't think

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exposing,

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you know,

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some.

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Right leaning,

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you know,

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17 year old engineer

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is to the Dow is suddenly going to make them,

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you know,

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change their political views and and you know,

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something like that,

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but it can't hurt,

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I think it's that way.

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So I mean I think I think

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cultural

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exposure to cultural diversity.

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For the um.

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For the student,

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but I also think

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it's

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There's some great writers,

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for example,

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that

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ah.

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Most people

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haven't heard of.

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So to sort of get,

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you know,

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whether it's their minority voice or or whatever,

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so to get them.

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You know,

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if you have 4 classes and 1 student goes,

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this is the best writer I've ever had.

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I want to read more of their stuff and whatever,

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that's that's always a good thing as well,

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if you see what I'm saying.

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So,

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I think there's

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Um

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I mean,

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one of the things,

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this is somewhat tangential,

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but

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the danger is always then

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when you're teaching something that you,

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you really love yourself.

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So,

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there's been sort of some Irish authors that I've,

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over the years,

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thrown in there and

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Pass flat lines.

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And I'm like,

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oh,

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OK.

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And that's like soul destroying,

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because you're like,

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oh God,

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why can't you get,

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and then you realize it's because

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there's so much cultural

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Knowledge expected by the author.

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It's just all packed in there that

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all the things that

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were triggering for me,

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oh,

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that's that's that's

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beautiful because it reflects this aspect of

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Irish politics or something like that.

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The students,

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of course,

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have no hope of getting at it.

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So,

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so there's always those dangers,

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uh,

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whether it's either you're bringing in something for a

298
00:08:28.380 --> 00:08:31.440
different culture or even something you really like yourself.

299
00:08:31.940 --> 00:08:32.140
I mean,

300
00:08:32.179 --> 00:08:33.090
there are many works,

301
00:08:33.380 --> 00:08:33.500
you know,

302
00:08:33.549 --> 00:08:35.010
which are more classic works that I

303
00:08:35.299 --> 00:08:35.820
love and

304
00:08:36.190 --> 00:08:37.679
Don't go down too well in class,

305
00:08:37.719 --> 00:08:38.000
and it's like,

306
00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:38.200
well,

307
00:08:38.239 --> 00:08:39.510
I will never do that again,

308
00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:41.630
because it's it's broken my heart,

309
00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:42.280
you know,

310
00:08:42.400 --> 00:08:42.739
so

311
00:08:43.400 --> 00:08:43.419
that

312
00:08:43.580 --> 00:08:45.840
that can make sort of choosing texts kind of interesting.

313
00:08:47.580 --> 00:08:49.090
So kind of along the same line,

314
00:08:49.179 --> 00:08:49.979
what is the human

315
00:08:50.419 --> 00:08:52.479
the human event course mean to you?

316
00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:55.840
Lots of grading.

317
00:08:56.900 --> 00:08:58.010
Um

318
00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:05.849
I

319
00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:07.000
I I'll tell you what I,

320
00:09:07.090 --> 00:09:08.539
what it means to me now.

321
00:09:09.179 --> 00:09:09.869
Um

322
00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:11.770
In the sense,

323
00:09:11.969 --> 00:09:12.770
sort of push,

324
00:09:12.929 --> 00:09:14.869
going back a little bit to something I said earlier.

325
00:09:15.700 --> 00:09:16.330
Um

326
00:09:18.239 --> 00:09:18.400
I,

327
00:09:18.479 --> 00:09:18.599
I,

328
00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:19.159
I think it's.

329
00:09:20.099 --> 00:09:24.460
Uh an opportunity for me to try and encourage students.

330
00:09:25.599 --> 00:09:26.200
To

331
00:09:26.400 --> 00:09:26.679
uh.

332
00:09:27.929 --> 00:09:30.559
Talk among themselves about

333
00:09:31.619 --> 00:09:32.919
important issues

334
00:09:33.500 --> 00:09:34.760
in a

335
00:09:35.219 --> 00:09:35.969
um

336
00:09:37.340 --> 00:09:37.820
Sort of,

337
00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:38.539
factual,

338
00:09:38.640 --> 00:09:40.000
evidence-driven kind of way.

339
00:09:41.609 --> 00:09:42.929
And the reason I say that is again,

340
00:09:43.010 --> 00:09:43.539
I think

341
00:09:43.880 --> 00:09:45.369
we're at a moment in time in American.

342
00:09:46.299 --> 00:09:48.419
Political culture where I think that's really,

343
00:09:48.539 --> 00:09:49.419
really important.

344
00:09:51.219 --> 00:09:51.849
20 years ago,

345
00:09:51.859 --> 00:09:53.250
I would probably have said something about,

346
00:09:53.580 --> 00:09:53.820
well,

347
00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:54.659
the payoff is,

348
00:09:54.830 --> 00:09:55.409
is,

349
00:09:55.820 --> 00:09:57.400
we're teaching students how to write,

350
00:09:57.859 --> 00:09:58.020
you know,

351
00:09:58.099 --> 00:09:59.159
in certain ways.

352
00:09:59.619 --> 00:10:02.729
And I'm a little bit more skeptical about the value of that now,

353
00:10:02.739 --> 00:10:03.200
for

354
00:10:04.020 --> 00:10:05.190
not only the political reasons.

355
00:10:06.059 --> 00:10:06.460
Um,

356
00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:07.119
I doubt

357
00:10:07.380 --> 00:10:10.799
a six-page human event paper will ever change the world.

358
00:10:11.340 --> 00:10:12.400
I could be wrong,

359
00:10:12.979 --> 00:10:13.500
um.

360
00:10:14.580 --> 00:10:14.770
But,

361
00:10:14.820 --> 00:10:15.169
and also,

362
00:10:15.260 --> 00:10:17.159
but I also think for technological reasons,

363
00:10:17.619 --> 00:10:18.340
um,

364
00:10:19.099 --> 00:10:19.260
You know,

365
00:10:19.380 --> 00:10:23.679
where people are now more used to screen time and stuff like that and

366
00:10:24.380 --> 00:10:25.690
communicating in

367
00:10:26.309 --> 00:10:26.510
You know,

368
00:10:26.669 --> 00:10:29.390
short bursts rather than extended extended things.

369
00:10:29.549 --> 00:10:31.289
I always thought we should get rid of the human

370
00:10:31.289 --> 00:10:33.679
event papers and just make a series of tweets.

371
00:10:34.349 --> 00:10:36.830
Sort of if you can explain Nietzsche to me in a set of tweets,

372
00:10:36.919 --> 00:10:37.710
then you know,

373
00:10:38.609 --> 00:10:38.669
we did that,

374
00:10:38.739 --> 00:10:39.950
which is an art in and of itself.

375
00:10:39.989 --> 00:10:40.169
I mean,

376
00:10:40.190 --> 00:10:43.210
you can make an argument that that's equally as valid in some ways.

377
00:10:43.750 --> 00:10:44.450
Um,

378
00:10:44.989 --> 00:10:45.349
so I mean,

379
00:10:45.710 --> 00:10:45.979
so,

380
00:10:46.070 --> 00:10:47.580
so I think there's been a shift in the way that I,

381
00:10:47.669 --> 00:10:48.630
what I see the value.

382
00:10:49.469 --> 00:10:49.830
Of it.

383
00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:51.380
The value

384
00:10:52.090 --> 00:10:52.640
For the student.

385
00:10:52.760 --> 00:10:54.049
The value for me.

386
00:10:55.030 --> 00:10:55.770
Um,

387
00:10:58.140 --> 00:10:59.700
We've got the best job in the world,

388
00:11:00.140 --> 00:11:01.000
except for the grading.

389
00:11:01.179 --> 00:11:01.969
Um,

390
00:11:02.830 --> 00:11:04.049
You're gonna hear that quite a lot,

391
00:11:04.429 --> 00:11:04.869
um,

392
00:11:05.070 --> 00:11:05.869
in the sense that.

393
00:11:07.049 --> 00:11:07.869
We get to

394
00:11:08.739 --> 00:11:09.729
Walk into a class.

395
00:11:11.210 --> 00:11:12.080
And

396
00:11:12.429 --> 00:11:13.960
talk about something that's interesting.

397
00:11:15.150 --> 00:11:16.630
And as long as everybody's done the reading,

398
00:11:17.320 --> 00:11:19.619
And as everybody's sort of prepared and engaged.

399
00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:21.739
It's a quick 75 minutes.

400
00:11:22.489 --> 00:11:22.500
Right,

401
00:11:23.179 --> 00:11:23.809
um,

402
00:11:24.250 --> 00:11:24.590
and it

403
00:11:24.690 --> 00:11:26.030
always leads more.

404
00:11:27.049 --> 00:11:28.409
Open questions than it does.

405
00:11:28.530 --> 00:11:30.150
And I think that's one of the things that

406
00:11:30.369 --> 00:11:32.250
some of the students find somewhat frustrating.

407
00:11:33.219 --> 00:11:33.570
I

408
00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:34.609
The sort of,

409
00:11:34.760 --> 00:11:36.799
there's the expectation that there's a big answer,

410
00:11:37.359 --> 00:11:37.520
right,

411
00:11:37.760 --> 00:11:39.159
that somehow after 75 minutes,

412
00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:40.299
you're going to understand.

413
00:11:41.789 --> 00:11:42.059
You know,

414
00:11:42.229 --> 00:11:43.750
Cicero or something like that.

415
00:11:44.739 --> 00:11:45.130
Uh,

416
00:11:45.219 --> 00:11:46.539
or what it's like to be,

417
00:11:46.729 --> 00:11:47.190
you know,

418
00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:47.880
er

419
00:11:48.890 --> 00:11:50.119
an underrepresentative

420
00:11:50.500 --> 00:11:52.500
individual in a certain culture or something like that.

421
00:11:53.280 --> 00:11:54.940
And that's not gonna happen,

422
00:11:55.520 --> 00:11:56.020
right?

423
00:11:56.450 --> 00:11:56.479
And,

424
00:11:57.270 --> 00:11:57.590
and I,

425
00:11:57.640 --> 00:11:58.080
I guess.

426
00:11:59.719 --> 00:12:00.530
One of the things

427
00:12:01.099 --> 00:12:04.770
I find it's sort of like the STEM majors that tend to struggle most against it,

428
00:12:05.229 --> 00:12:08.530
because these sort of humanities sort of majors are a little bit more sort of OK about

429
00:12:08.950 --> 00:12:10.590
ambiguity and not figuring stuff,

430
00:12:10.630 --> 00:12:10.880
but

431
00:12:11.469 --> 00:12:11.710
You know,

432
00:12:11.869 --> 00:12:12.549
the engineers,

433
00:12:12.770 --> 00:12:14.270
there's an answer and they're gonna find it.

434
00:12:14.630 --> 00:12:15.070
So I,

435
00:12:15.140 --> 00:12:16.669
I always find that a little bit fun,

436
00:12:17.070 --> 00:12:17.599
you know,

437
00:12:18.049 --> 00:12:18.059
in,

438
00:12:18.210 --> 00:12:19.070
in that sense,

439
00:12:19.190 --> 00:12:20.489
and it it just makes for great

440
00:12:21.219 --> 00:12:21.469
conversations.

441
00:12:22.210 --> 00:12:22.460
You know,

442
00:12:22.619 --> 00:12:25.059
as long as you're willing to accept the ambiguity of what's going on.

443
00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:26.419
Um,

444
00:12:26.760 --> 00:12:27.150
uh,

445
00:12:27.479 --> 00:12:30.250
it's like the other thing that always gets me is occasionally you'll steal.

446
00:12:30.630 --> 00:12:32.280
So what actually is the human offense.

447
00:12:35.250 --> 00:12:36.609
I didn't choose the name.

448
00:12:36.729 --> 00:12:38.489
I have no idea what it means,

449
00:12:38.770 --> 00:12:41.710
which it makes you sort of feel a little bit like a fraud of some kind.

450
00:12:42.330 --> 00:12:42.409
Right,

451
00:12:42.489 --> 00:12:43.530
that's that

452
00:12:44.169 --> 00:12:45.039
we're we're hiding this thing,

453
00:12:45.090 --> 00:12:47.719
the event that happened around maybe noon,

454
00:12:47.929 --> 00:12:51.159
like 4:04 BCE or something like that.

455
00:12:51.690 --> 00:12:51.770
Oh,

456
00:12:51.849 --> 00:12:52.609
that's the human event.

457
00:12:52.690 --> 00:12:52.890
OK,

458
00:12:53.010 --> 00:12:53.169
right,

459
00:12:53.250 --> 00:12:53.750
you know.

460
00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:54.750
Um,

461
00:12:55.250 --> 00:12:55.609
so,

462
00:12:56.059 --> 00:12:56.400
so I,

463
00:12:56.409 --> 00:12:57.210
I just find that really,

464
00:12:57.250 --> 00:12:58.030
really interesting,

465
00:12:58.450 --> 00:12:58.969
uh,

466
00:12:59.289 --> 00:12:59.590
that

467
00:12:59.890 --> 00:13:01.049
we're not terribly sure.

468
00:13:02.369 --> 00:13:03.530
What it even means.

469
00:13:03.900 --> 00:13:05.169
But we've been carrying this tag,

470
00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:05.710
you know.

471
00:13:06.169 --> 00:13:06.929
And it's actually funny,

472
00:13:06.979 --> 00:13:07.369
um.

473
00:13:08.109 --> 00:13:08.119
Because

474
00:13:08.479 --> 00:13:11.030
other honors colleges have sort of taken the sort of name,

475
00:13:11.650 --> 00:13:12.849
and they can't use the name.

476
00:13:13.330 --> 00:13:16.890
So there's an honors college whose equivalent is called the Human Situation.

477
00:13:18.400 --> 00:13:19.440
Which just sounds awkward,

478
00:13:19.520 --> 00:13:19.719
right?

479
00:13:19.760 --> 00:13:20.359
I mean,

480
00:13:20.719 --> 00:13:21.159
and it's like,

481
00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:21.950
it's like flattery,

482
00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:22.280
and it's like,

483
00:13:22.359 --> 00:13:22.469
oh,

484
00:13:22.520 --> 00:13:23.039
that's nice,

485
00:13:23.119 --> 00:13:24.520
thank you very much.

486
00:13:24.719 --> 00:13:24.729
But,

487
00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:26.419
and strangely enough,

488
00:13:26.640 --> 00:13:29.440
I'd be able to tell you what the human situation is.

489
00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:30.630
You know what I mean?

490
00:13:30.880 --> 00:13:32.619
But you ask me what the human event is,

491
00:13:32.719 --> 00:13:33.219
I'm like.

492
00:13:34.280 --> 00:13:34.469
Anyway,

493
00:13:34.520 --> 00:13:35.400
that was a little tangential,

494
00:13:35.479 --> 00:13:36.159
I apologize,

495
00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:36.559
but,

496
00:13:36.679 --> 00:13:36.979
but,

497
00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:37.320
uh,

498
00:13:37.599 --> 00:13:37.719
so,

499
00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:38.299
but I mean.

500
00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:40.690
I,

501
00:13:40.969 --> 00:13:43.859
I think it's one of the things I also say to the students,

502
00:13:44.280 --> 00:13:44.700
uh,

503
00:13:45.030 --> 00:13:46.059
privileged students that are,

504
00:13:46.119 --> 00:13:46.549
are

505
00:13:48.359 --> 00:13:49.840
Having problems talking in class,

506
00:13:50.239 --> 00:13:50.659
um,

507
00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:52.239
for whatever reason,

508
00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:52.989
is

509
00:13:53.359 --> 00:13:53.880
what it also is,

510
00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:56.659
this is probably the safest space that they're going to have.

511
00:13:59.349 --> 00:14:00.489
To learn how to interact.

512
00:14:01.169 --> 00:14:01.179
With

513
00:14:02.130 --> 00:14:03.270
other students.

514
00:14:03.809 --> 00:14:04.530
So no matter,

515
00:14:04.969 --> 00:14:05.270
you know,

516
00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:06.510
occasionally I'll get

517
00:14:07.030 --> 00:14:07.570
this,

518
00:14:08.150 --> 00:14:08.210
you know,

519
00:14:08.409 --> 00:14:08.789
computers,

520
00:14:09.090 --> 00:14:09.739
computer engineering,

521
00:14:10.010 --> 00:14:10.890
computer systems engineering,

522
00:14:11.049 --> 00:14:11.429
computer science,

523
00:14:11.489 --> 00:14:11.929
whatever

524
00:14:12.530 --> 00:14:13.030
major,

525
00:14:13.450 --> 00:14:13.809
and he's like,

526
00:14:13.849 --> 00:14:15.010
oh I won't have to

527
00:14:15.169 --> 00:14:15.690
work with people.

528
00:14:15.729 --> 00:14:18.250
I'm just going to be in my office coding and stuff like that.

529
00:14:18.330 --> 00:14:19.739
I'm that isn't how it works.

530
00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:23.080
There's no solitary genius on the hill creating the next Facebook

531
00:14:23.489 --> 00:14:26.130
and you're going to have to interact with people and you're going to have to be

532
00:14:26.130 --> 00:14:28.750
able to convince them of your position and you're going to have to do this.

533
00:14:29.739 --> 00:14:31.619
So if you want to be a better engineer.

534
00:14:32.780 --> 00:14:34.150
Or a better historian

535
00:14:34.460 --> 00:14:35.539
or a better whatever.

536
00:14:36.299 --> 00:14:37.849
You're going to have to learn these skills,

537
00:14:37.859 --> 00:14:39.049
and this is the place we,

538
00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:39.619
yeah,

539
00:14:39.710 --> 00:14:41.090
we're not talking about engineering,

540
00:14:41.340 --> 00:14:42.200
we're talking about

541
00:14:42.450 --> 00:14:44.260
Ovid's metamorphosis or something like that.

542
00:14:45.099 --> 00:14:46.700
But the skills are transferable.

543
00:14:47.219 --> 00:14:47.760
So,

544
00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:50.380
this is your way to learn those skills as a freshman.

545
00:14:51.020 --> 00:14:52.059
And you will be better.

546
00:14:52.789 --> 00:14:55.229
Throughout your college career and beyond because of.

547
00:14:55.630 --> 00:14:57.359
And usually when you sort of couch in those terms,

548
00:14:57.950 --> 00:14:58.669
students who are a little bit,

549
00:14:58.830 --> 00:14:59.950
I don't know why I'm here,

550
00:15:00.099 --> 00:15:00.590
you know,

551
00:15:01.669 --> 00:15:03.469
are a lot more receptive to what's going on.

552
00:15:04.169 --> 00:15:04.690
You know,

553
00:15:05.010 --> 00:15:05.520
um,

554
00:15:05.809 --> 00:15:06.869
and that usually works

555
00:15:07.090 --> 00:15:10.409
remarkably well actually to get some of the quieter students to start.

556
00:15:11.520 --> 00:15:12.280
Coming out of their shell,

557
00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:12.690
because they,

558
00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:14.900
they can see a real payback for themselves.

559
00:15:15.950 --> 00:15:16.669
In the short term,

560
00:15:16.830 --> 00:15:17.090
medium.

561
00:15:19.989 --> 00:15:21.669
I don't know if that was actually an answer to the question.

562
00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:21.989
No,

563
00:15:22.109 --> 00:15:22.270
yeah,

564
00:15:22.349 --> 00:15:23.219
that was perfect.

565
00:15:23.630 --> 00:15:24.330
Um,

566
00:15:24.909 --> 00:15:28.700
can you tell me a little bit more about other courses that you teach at Barrett?

567
00:15:28.710 --> 00:15:28.719
Uh.

568
00:15:29.890 --> 00:15:29.900
Well

569
00:15:32.570 --> 00:15:33.080
Yeah.

570
00:15:34.070 --> 00:15:34.270
So,

571
00:15:34.469 --> 00:15:34.919
so

572
00:15:35.190 --> 00:15:37.049
one of one of the great things about this job is

573
00:15:37.510 --> 00:15:40.260
there's probably very few places that have an

574
00:15:40.260 --> 00:15:43.309
evolutionary biologist who teaches classes on Greek drama.

575
00:15:44.530 --> 00:15:45.150
Um,

576
00:15:45.400 --> 00:15:45.750
because

577
00:15:46.989 --> 00:15:49.510
Biology programs aren't going to allow you to do that,

578
00:15:49.520 --> 00:15:49.909
and,

579
00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:52.940
and classics programs aren't going to bring in a biologist to do it.

580
00:15:53.599 --> 00:15:54.250
Um,

581
00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:55.469
And,

582
00:15:55.479 --> 00:15:55.919
and

583
00:15:56.400 --> 00:15:56.510
so,

584
00:15:56.640 --> 00:15:57.239
so the

585
00:15:59.929 --> 00:16:00.599
My passion

586
00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:03.059
in many ways is

587
00:16:03.359 --> 00:16:04.280
Greek history and culture,

588
00:16:04.400 --> 00:16:05.619
ancient Greek history and culture.

589
00:16:06.700 --> 00:16:07.099
So I,

590
00:16:07.210 --> 00:16:08.539
I teach a course.

591
00:16:09.599 --> 00:16:11.460
Various versions of it on um

592
00:16:11.929 --> 00:16:13.159
Greek tragedy in particular.

593
00:16:14.169 --> 00:16:15.080
Um,

594
00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:16.559
and so one version is,

595
00:16:16.719 --> 00:16:16.830
you know,

596
00:16:16.880 --> 00:16:18.559
we'll work our way through the works,

597
00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:18.940
you know.

598
00:16:20.190 --> 00:16:23.330
a drama day kind of thing and um

599
00:16:23.549 --> 00:16:24.390
just talk about them

600
00:16:24.630 --> 00:16:25.330
and

601
00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:27.210
talk about the history and talk about

602
00:16:27.729 --> 00:16:29.380
er ways of of

603
00:16:30.229 --> 00:16:33.049
What we may learn about ancient Greek culture from

604
00:16:33.390 --> 00:16:33.890
um

605
00:16:34.270 --> 00:16:35.150
these surviving works.

606
00:16:36.409 --> 00:16:37.229
Um,

607
00:16:37.530 --> 00:16:40.390
and that's really good because some of the students who like love the human event,

608
00:16:40.469 --> 00:16:42.510
love that going back and doing that sort of thing,

609
00:16:42.690 --> 00:16:43.169
um.

610
00:16:44.780 --> 00:16:45.479
And

611
00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:47.979
it sort of then developed as a course I'm teaching at the,

612
00:16:48.109 --> 00:16:49.520
I'm just finishing teaching at the moment.

613
00:16:50.770 --> 00:16:51.130
Uh,

614
00:16:51.289 --> 00:16:51.770
on tragedy,

615
00:16:51.809 --> 00:16:52.669
trauma and war.

616
00:16:53.619 --> 00:16:56.770
Which looks at how people have been using

617
00:16:57.299 --> 00:16:58.450
over the last couple of years,

618
00:16:59.109 --> 00:17:00.210
Greek tragedies

619
00:17:00.950 --> 00:17:04.329
to work with veterans with PTSD

620
00:17:04.618 --> 00:17:05.189
to help them.

621
00:17:06.009 --> 00:17:07.288
Start a dialogue about

622
00:17:07.638 --> 00:17:09.718
what's going on and and and all these sort of,

623
00:17:09.878 --> 00:17:10.598
and their families,

624
00:17:10.638 --> 00:17:11.458
equally as important.

625
00:17:12.280 --> 00:17:12.848
Um,

626
00:17:13.118 --> 00:17:16.750
and then that subsequently has been expanded to work with er er

627
00:17:16.959 --> 00:17:18.540
incarcerated prisoners

628
00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:20.000
and prison officers.

629
00:17:20.598 --> 00:17:20.608
Uh,

630
00:17:21.358 --> 00:17:25.118
and to deal with end of life issues and stuff like that.

631
00:17:25.848 --> 00:17:28.959
So that course is is really interesting because

632
00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:31.339
we still study the dramas that they use,

633
00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:33.079
and try and understand what's going on then,

634
00:17:33.300 --> 00:17:35.780
before we talk about how they get used and stuff like that.

635
00:17:36.520 --> 00:17:37.160
Um

636
00:17:38.520 --> 00:17:39.829
So I had just,

637
00:17:40.290 --> 00:17:40.550
uh,

638
00:17:40.560 --> 00:17:40.969
Tuesday.

639
00:17:41.739 --> 00:17:42.290
Uh,

640
00:17:42.780 --> 00:17:43.500
and our last class,

641
00:17:43.540 --> 00:17:45.079
this fantastic discussion about

642
00:17:45.760 --> 00:17:46.439
Um,

643
00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:46.880
uh,

644
00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:47.680
end of life issues.

645
00:17:48.969 --> 00:17:49.869
And

646
00:17:50.630 --> 00:17:50.829
You know,

647
00:17:50.989 --> 00:17:53.750
there were very diametrically opposed opinions in the room,

648
00:17:54.150 --> 00:17:56.310
as you can well imagine with an issue like that.

649
00:17:57.140 --> 00:17:57.699
Um

650
00:17:58.609 --> 00:18:01.599
And using the tragedies as your starting off point,

651
00:18:01.650 --> 00:18:01.959
they were,

652
00:18:02.130 --> 00:18:02.979
they ended up

653
00:18:04.770 --> 00:18:04.819
I,

654
00:18:04.979 --> 00:18:05.520
I,

655
00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:07.589
I don't think anybody's mind was changed.

656
00:18:07.979 --> 00:18:08.380
You know what I mean,

657
00:18:08.459 --> 00:18:09.800
but there was a middle ground found.

658
00:18:10.780 --> 00:18:11.939
And

659
00:18:12.420 --> 00:18:16.020
the realization that this was complicated and there had to be an ongoing discussion

660
00:18:16.300 --> 00:18:17.260
and all that sort of stuff,

661
00:18:17.579 --> 00:18:18.060
which

662
00:18:18.219 --> 00:18:19.390
is exactly what you want.

663
00:18:20.300 --> 00:18:20.839
Right,

664
00:18:21.660 --> 00:18:21.680
uh,

665
00:18:22.219 --> 00:18:22.339
you know,

666
00:18:22.459 --> 00:18:23.890
get started thinking about these things,

667
00:18:23.900 --> 00:18:25.959
and they are tough issues and stuff like that.

668
00:18:26.420 --> 00:18:27.599
And if we're using Greek drama,

669
00:18:27.619 --> 00:18:27.939
for example,

670
00:18:28.020 --> 00:18:29.859
as a way to get us in there.

671
00:18:30.910 --> 00:18:31.520
That's great.

672
00:18:31.829 --> 00:18:31.910
Uh,

673
00:18:31.989 --> 00:18:32.270
you could,

674
00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:33.109
you could use other things,

675
00:18:33.150 --> 00:18:33.630
obviously,

676
00:18:33.949 --> 00:18:34.109
I mean,

677
00:18:34.270 --> 00:18:35.030
this happens to work for.

678
00:18:35.800 --> 00:18:36.319
So,

679
00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:38.439
that's largely a lot of what I've been teaching,

680
00:18:38.510 --> 00:18:39.780
but in the past I've done

681
00:18:40.800 --> 00:18:41.349
stuff about,

682
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:41.849
uh,

683
00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:44.839
courses about the interface between science and religion and philosophy.

684
00:18:45.689 --> 00:18:46.530
Um,

685
00:18:46.810 --> 00:18:47.709
I've done,

686
00:18:48.089 --> 00:18:48.449
uh,

687
00:18:50.469 --> 00:18:51.310
I'm blanking on it.

688
00:18:52.150 --> 00:18:52.500
sections,

689
00:18:52.729 --> 00:18:55.390
other sections of course in the history of science and things like that.

690
00:18:55.989 --> 00:18:56.270
So,

691
00:18:56.550 --> 00:18:57.469
but I mean that's the great thing,

692
00:18:57.550 --> 00:18:57.930
I mean.

693
00:19:00.300 --> 00:19:01.099
For whatever reason,

694
00:19:01.130 --> 00:19:04.089
the decision was made that when we teach those upper division courses,

695
00:19:05.290 --> 00:19:05.910
It doesn't

696
00:19:06.770 --> 00:19:10.010
have to be within our necessary area of specialization.

697
00:19:10.729 --> 00:19:11.010
You know,

698
00:19:11.170 --> 00:19:12.670
so you can teach a class on something that you

699
00:19:13.459 --> 00:19:14.380
Is your hobby

700
00:19:14.699 --> 00:19:15.650
or your passion.

701
00:19:16.449 --> 00:19:16.829
Like that.

702
00:19:17.579 --> 00:19:18.339
Um,

703
00:19:18.739 --> 00:19:20.020
and that's fairly unique,

704
00:19:20.349 --> 00:19:22.020
because in most places there are,

705
00:19:22.180 --> 00:19:22.380
you know,

706
00:19:22.560 --> 00:19:24.780
upper division courses that have to be taught,

707
00:19:25.099 --> 00:19:25.260
right?

708
00:19:25.380 --> 00:19:25.630
So,

709
00:19:25.780 --> 00:19:25.969
you know,

710
00:19:26.060 --> 00:19:27.040
intro to

711
00:19:27.699 --> 00:19:28.859
programming or something like that.

712
00:19:29.540 --> 00:19:30.400
And

713
00:19:30.810 --> 00:19:31.729
somebody's going to have to teach it,

714
00:19:31.800 --> 00:19:33.449
so you have to do it and all this sort of stuff.

715
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:34.010
But here,

716
00:19:34.089 --> 00:19:36.010
if you look at the list of upper division courses,

717
00:19:36.089 --> 00:19:40.609
it's just everybody has chosen to do that topic because they they like that topic.

718
00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:44.410
And the the beauty of it is if if the class bombs totally.

719
00:19:46.150 --> 00:19:48.390
Clearly you're more interested in it than the students,

720
00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:50.000
then you'd never have to teach it again.

721
00:19:50.829 --> 00:19:52.119
You can develop something else.

722
00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:53.119
And

723
00:19:53.339 --> 00:19:53.540
that's,

724
00:19:53.660 --> 00:19:54.150
that's

725
00:19:55.170 --> 00:19:56.339
a very good thing,

726
00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:57.560
a very nice thing.

727
00:19:58.390 --> 00:19:59.189
Um,

728
00:19:59.489 --> 00:20:01.780
and then there are classes we teach on study abroad,

729
00:20:02.219 --> 00:20:02.449
you know,

730
00:20:02.609 --> 00:20:03.829
so I've taught in

731
00:20:04.099 --> 00:20:04.290
London,

732
00:20:04.369 --> 00:20:04.650
Edinburgh,

733
00:20:04.760 --> 00:20:05.170
Dublin.

734
00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:06.619
Greece and

735
00:20:07.270 --> 00:20:07.689
Italy.

736
00:20:09.800 --> 00:20:10.270
So those are,

737
00:20:10.310 --> 00:20:12.849
those are also fun as well because there's that element of

738
00:20:13.310 --> 00:20:14.329
teaching the stuff,

739
00:20:14.829 --> 00:20:16.530
for want of a better expression in the field

740
00:20:17.189 --> 00:20:18.469
where they can see,

741
00:20:18.910 --> 00:20:19.060
you know,

742
00:20:19.150 --> 00:20:21.930
the stuff where's the Roman forum or something like that.

743
00:20:22.770 --> 00:20:22.780
Um,

744
00:20:23.069 --> 00:20:25.920
and then that's an extra sort of dimension to all of that as well.

745
00:20:26.300 --> 00:20:26.369
You know,

746
00:20:26.430 --> 00:20:27.479
the first time I

747
00:20:28.890 --> 00:20:29.900
I have very

748
00:20:30.209 --> 00:20:30.859
strong memories of

749
00:20:31.459 --> 00:20:32.760
I was teaching in Athens.

750
00:20:33.439 --> 00:20:33.449
And

751
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:35.099
we took the students at the Acropolis.

752
00:20:36.099 --> 00:20:36.459
Uh,

753
00:20:36.469 --> 00:20:39.209
and they're coming over and they're asking me questions and,

754
00:20:39.219 --> 00:20:39.380
you know,

755
00:20:39.459 --> 00:20:42.079
I'm pointing out things and all this sort of stuff.

756
00:20:42.540 --> 00:20:43.979
And I started getting emotional.

757
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:44.609
It was like,

758
00:20:44.939 --> 00:20:45.459
this is it.

759
00:20:45.540 --> 00:20:45.930
This is,

760
00:20:46.099 --> 00:20:46.530
you know,

761
00:20:46.979 --> 00:20:48.160
how it's supposed to be.

762
00:20:48.459 --> 00:20:48.939
Um.

763
00:20:49.890 --> 00:20:50.170
You know,

764
00:20:50.369 --> 00:20:51.310
both for me as a teacher,

765
00:20:51.689 --> 00:20:53.640
but I also think for the students to be able to expose,

766
00:20:53.969 --> 00:20:55.890
to be exposed to seeing these things and not

767
00:20:55.890 --> 00:20:58.010
just hearing about them or seeing them on video,

768
00:20:58.910 --> 00:20:59.000
right?

769
00:20:59.479 --> 00:21:03.229
If you stand in the Acropolis and look out over Athens and the Bay of Salamis.

770
00:21:04.030 --> 00:21:07.050
A lot of things that you've read about suddenly start making sense

771
00:21:07.390 --> 00:21:08.300
in ways that

772
00:21:08.989 --> 00:21:10.089
you can't explain,

773
00:21:10.510 --> 00:21:10.969
you know,

774
00:21:11.430 --> 00:21:11.439
uh,

775
00:21:11.709 --> 00:21:13.119
so that's why I think one of the things.

776
00:21:13.719 --> 00:21:14.160
Um,

777
00:21:15.109 --> 00:21:17.069
The study abroad opportunities and all that sort of stuff,

778
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:18.319
I think are deeply valuable.

779
00:21:19.579 --> 00:21:20.540
Both for us as educators,

780
00:21:20.579 --> 00:21:22.050
but also for for the students.

781
00:21:22.420 --> 00:21:22.579
I mean,

782
00:21:22.619 --> 00:21:23.180
if I,

783
00:21:23.660 --> 00:21:24.160
if I could

784
00:21:24.300 --> 00:21:25.890
wave a magic wand and become the

785
00:21:27.380 --> 00:21:28.229
And we had,

786
00:21:28.469 --> 00:21:28.790
you know,

787
00:21:29.030 --> 00:21:30.670
a donor of some kind.

788
00:21:31.030 --> 00:21:33.089
I basically make sure that every

789
00:21:33.550 --> 00:21:34.209
art student

790
00:21:34.510 --> 00:21:35.329
got to do

791
00:21:35.900 --> 00:21:36.390
a study abroad,

792
00:21:36.469 --> 00:21:37.089
whether it's

793
00:21:37.300 --> 00:21:39.530
10 days or 4 weeks or something like that,

794
00:21:40.069 --> 00:21:41.109
at no cost to them.

795
00:21:41.849 --> 00:21:42.910
And it's part of the deal.

796
00:21:43.290 --> 00:21:44.170
You just have to do it.

797
00:21:45.439 --> 00:21:46.709
We have a whole bunch of programs,

798
00:21:46.829 --> 00:21:47.449
whatever,

799
00:21:47.939 --> 00:21:48.479
um,

800
00:21:49.040 --> 00:21:50.849
but because I think it's a really important thing

801
00:21:51.670 --> 00:21:52.290
for

802
00:21:52.790 --> 00:21:53.280
not only

803
00:21:53.780 --> 00:21:54.270
students in general,

804
00:21:54.439 --> 00:21:56.949
but our students in particular to be exposed to.

805
00:21:58.510 --> 00:21:59.290
Other cultures.

806
00:22:00.010 --> 00:22:00.250
Uh,

807
00:22:00.449 --> 00:22:01.209
not as a tourist,

808
00:22:01.290 --> 00:22:01.849
not as a just,

809
00:22:01.969 --> 00:22:02.089
you know,

810
00:22:02.180 --> 00:22:03.290
I saw the Eiffel Tower,

811
00:22:03.489 --> 00:22:03.609
you know,

812
00:22:03.770 --> 00:22:04.310
sort of thing,

813
00:22:04.770 --> 00:22:06.089
but do the sorts of things that we do,

814
00:22:06.170 --> 00:22:06.510
for example,

815
00:22:06.729 --> 00:22:07.930
when we take students to Rome.

816
00:22:08.630 --> 00:22:09.780
and put them into

817
00:22:10.040 --> 00:22:10.680
apartments.

818
00:22:11.719 --> 00:22:12.880
Surrounded by Romans.

819
00:22:14.040 --> 00:22:14.560
Modern Romans,

820
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:15.500
not ancient Romans,

821
00:22:15.819 --> 00:22:17.290
er surrounded by Romans,

822
00:22:17.550 --> 00:22:19.449
er and having to do daily shopping,

823
00:22:19.800 --> 00:22:23.199
and having to negotiate living in the city themselves.

824
00:22:23.979 --> 00:22:24.400
Um,

825
00:22:24.569 --> 00:22:26.109
you do that for 3 weeks,

826
00:22:26.569 --> 00:22:28.050
and you'll come back changed,

827
00:22:28.130 --> 00:22:29.790
but you'll come back with a set of skills

828
00:22:30.250 --> 00:22:31.050
that you can,

829
00:22:31.089 --> 00:22:31.609
um,

830
00:22:32.130 --> 00:22:32.609
use anywhere.

831
00:22:34.260 --> 00:22:34.920
Um

832
00:22:35.540 --> 00:22:35.739
I mean,

833
00:22:35.780 --> 00:22:36.760
I've seen students

834
00:22:37.300 --> 00:22:37.719
go.

835
00:22:38.800 --> 00:22:39.130
From

836
00:22:39.900 --> 00:22:40.969
In Athens on day one,

837
00:22:41.060 --> 00:22:42.160
not being able to read the language,

838
00:22:42.260 --> 00:22:43.300
not being able to do anything,

839
00:22:43.380 --> 00:22:44.760
just totally paralyzed.

840
00:22:45.280 --> 00:22:45.699
Not

841
00:22:45.969 --> 00:22:47.550
being willing to go into a

842
00:22:48.109 --> 00:22:48.420
Uh,

843
00:22:48.430 --> 00:22:49.130
like a cafe,

844
00:22:49.469 --> 00:22:51.349
I'd buy some food because I didn't recognize anything,

845
00:22:51.430 --> 00:22:52.689
he didn't know what was going on,

846
00:22:53.349 --> 00:22:53.819
to,

847
00:22:53.959 --> 00:22:54.300
you know,

848
00:22:54.589 --> 00:22:55.989
5 weeks later in Rome,

849
00:22:56.430 --> 00:22:57.069
basically.

850
00:22:58.439 --> 00:22:58.949
Totally

851
00:22:59.969 --> 00:23:02.709
Able to deal with anything that was thrown at them,

852
00:23:03.170 --> 00:23:03.290
you know,

853
00:23:03.489 --> 00:23:06.479
going to Naples for the weekend on their own,

854
00:23:06.489 --> 00:23:07.119
kind of thing.

855
00:23:07.489 --> 00:23:08.469
And that's a huge,

856
00:23:08.689 --> 00:23:09.890
that's an amazing thing to see.

857
00:23:10.869 --> 00:23:10.880
Um,

858
00:23:11.510 --> 00:23:13.569
and it's amazing for the students as well,

859
00:23:13.949 --> 00:23:14.260
so

860
00:23:14.869 --> 00:23:14.989
You know,

861
00:23:15.030 --> 00:23:15.829
in an ideal world,

862
00:23:16.310 --> 00:23:17.449
everybody would get to do that.

863
00:23:17.699 --> 00:23:19.349
Everybody would be exposed to that.

864
00:23:20.739 --> 00:23:22.000
Financier

865
00:23:22.189 --> 00:23:22.569
need.

866
00:23:24.199 --> 00:23:24.760
That's my dream.

867
00:23:26.630 --> 00:23:26.829
Uh,

868
00:23:26.949 --> 00:23:31.390
so do you have a specific favorite memory or something from a study abroad trip?

869
00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:36.219
Probably that 1st 1st time on the Acropolis with students.

870
00:23:36.510 --> 00:23:37.199
Um,

871
00:23:37.560 --> 00:23:38.920
there are some photos of it somewhere,

872
00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:39.880
um.

873
00:23:41.060 --> 00:23:41.390
But yeah,

874
00:23:41.469 --> 00:23:41.880
that was,

875
00:23:41.989 --> 00:23:42.489
that was.

876
00:23:44.109 --> 00:23:45.089
I was very powerful.

877
00:23:45.790 --> 00:23:46.540
Um,

878
00:23:47.489 --> 00:23:47.650
I mean,

879
00:23:47.729 --> 00:23:48.489
one of the things

880
00:23:48.930 --> 00:23:49.410
it's.

881
00:23:51.469 --> 00:23:51.630
Yeah,

882
00:23:51.709 --> 00:23:52.030
I mean,

883
00:23:52.270 --> 00:23:54.540
distilling 18 years down to give me,

884
00:23:54.750 --> 00:23:56.189
give me one good memory.

885
00:23:56.459 --> 00:23:58.209
I don't know if I could do that,

886
00:23:58.750 --> 00:23:59.140
um.

887
00:24:00.130 --> 00:24:00.489
I had,

888
00:24:00.569 --> 00:24:02.989
I had a memory that that wasn't actually,

889
00:24:03.410 --> 00:24:04.250
it's bi-related,

890
00:24:04.329 --> 00:24:04.449
but,

891
00:24:04.510 --> 00:24:06.329
but it wasn't in the human event or it wasn't a thing,

892
00:24:06.349 --> 00:24:06.900
it was a

893
00:24:07.489 --> 00:24:07.969
um.

894
00:24:09.040 --> 00:24:10.560
There are a number of students who.

895
00:24:12.890 --> 00:24:13.589
have become

896
00:24:14.479 --> 00:24:15.449
good friends of mine,

897
00:24:15.810 --> 00:24:16.849
who've now long graduated,

898
00:24:16.930 --> 00:24:19.689
are now like professional lawyers and doctors and stuff like that.

899
00:24:20.689 --> 00:24:21.329
Whom

900
00:24:21.689 --> 00:24:22.709
when they come into town,

901
00:24:23.089 --> 00:24:23.530
um.

902
00:24:24.589 --> 00:24:24.790
You know,

903
00:24:24.910 --> 00:24:26.630
get in contact with me and we go out and have a bite

904
00:24:26.630 --> 00:24:29.109
to eat and a drink or something like that and just catch up.

905
00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:30.959
Um,

906
00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:32.479
and so these are in their

907
00:24:33.260 --> 00:24:34.680
Early to mid 30s now.

908
00:24:35.219 --> 00:24:35.739
Um,

909
00:24:36.420 --> 00:24:37.239
That's fun.

910
00:24:37.739 --> 00:24:38.180
Um,

911
00:24:38.420 --> 00:24:39.699
and then watching them have kids.

912
00:24:40.569 --> 00:24:41.170
It's it's,

913
00:24:41.209 --> 00:24:42.390
it's like really sort of

914
00:24:42.770 --> 00:24:43.390
um.

915
00:24:46.050 --> 00:24:47.300
I don't know how to how to phrase it.

916
00:24:48.150 --> 00:24:48.520
Uh,

917
00:24:48.849 --> 00:24:50.300
long term project kind of thing,

918
00:24:50.339 --> 00:24:50.969
you know what I mean?

919
00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:51.699
You're like seeing,

920
00:24:52.099 --> 00:24:53.040
seeing all these things.

921
00:24:53.420 --> 00:24:53.819
Um,

922
00:24:54.020 --> 00:24:54.579
and then there was,

923
00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:55.160
there was,

924
00:24:55.260 --> 00:24:55.449
uh,

925
00:24:55.540 --> 00:24:55.979
an,

926
00:24:56.060 --> 00:24:56.579
an extent of mine,

927
00:24:56.660 --> 00:24:57.180
a barrister,

928
00:24:57.380 --> 00:24:57.680
who,

929
00:24:57.869 --> 00:24:58.260
uh,

930
00:24:58.660 --> 00:25:00.650
asked me to be groomsman at his wedding,

931
00:25:01.060 --> 00:25:02.739
which was an interesting experience because all the other

932
00:25:02.739 --> 00:25:04.900
groomsmen were the same age as he was,

933
00:25:05.140 --> 00:25:05.339
late,

934
00:25:05.420 --> 00:25:06.209
late 20s,

935
00:25:06.219 --> 00:25:06.520
and

936
00:25:06.660 --> 00:25:06.810
I

937
00:25:07.099 --> 00:25:08.969
I at the time was in my late 40s,

938
00:25:09.060 --> 00:25:09.390
you know,

939
00:25:09.550 --> 00:25:09.930
I was like,

940
00:25:09.939 --> 00:25:10.719
OK.

941
00:25:11.219 --> 00:25:11.459
They're like,

942
00:25:11.540 --> 00:25:11.660
yes,

943
00:25:11.819 --> 00:25:13.410
we're going out partying before the wedding,

944
00:25:13.420 --> 00:25:14.819
and I'm getting too old for that.

945
00:25:16.219 --> 00:25:17.540
Which is unfortunately true,

946
00:25:17.619 --> 00:25:17.900
but,

947
00:25:18.479 --> 00:25:18.489
um,

948
00:25:18.699 --> 00:25:19.579
so those sorts of things,

949
00:25:19.619 --> 00:25:20.219
I think.

950
00:25:21.660 --> 00:25:23.859
So that's not as much a single memory as a

951
00:25:26.329 --> 00:25:27.510
A cluster of things,

952
00:25:27.989 --> 00:25:28.670
you know,

953
00:25:29.089 --> 00:25:29.650
um.

954
00:25:30.780 --> 00:25:31.079
There

955
00:25:31.939 --> 00:25:32.579
there's.

956
00:25:33.520 --> 00:25:33.640
Uh,

957
00:25:33.689 --> 00:25:33.839
you know,

958
00:25:34.250 --> 00:25:34.510
I,

959
00:25:34.890 --> 00:25:35.530
without naming names,

960
00:25:35.569 --> 00:25:35.930
and there's,

961
00:25:36.030 --> 00:25:37.750
there's a student of mine who's now,

962
00:25:38.010 --> 00:25:39.089
she's got a PhD.

963
00:25:40.420 --> 00:25:41.920
In anthropology and she

964
00:25:42.699 --> 00:25:43.219
Um,

965
00:25:44.670 --> 00:25:44.829
You know,

966
00:25:44.910 --> 00:25:45.369
I was

967
00:25:45.589 --> 00:25:48.189
working in Europe and all that sort of stuff and.

968
00:25:49.739 --> 00:25:49.750
She,

969
00:25:50.719 --> 00:25:50.819
you know,

970
00:25:50.900 --> 00:25:52.180
we stay in touch and when she's in town.

971
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:53.540
We'd meet up and,

972
00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:53.959
and,

973
00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:54.439
you know,

974
00:25:54.560 --> 00:25:55.079
she's like,

975
00:25:55.310 --> 00:25:56.760
I need your advice about life

976
00:25:57.630 --> 00:25:59.349
and where I should go from here and all this sort of stuff,

977
00:25:59.359 --> 00:25:59.630
and

978
00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:00.530
that's

979
00:26:01.199 --> 00:26:02.459
It's deeply touching

980
00:26:02.910 --> 00:26:04.280
that somebody still cares what

981
00:26:04.560 --> 00:26:05.160
what you think.

982
00:26:05.199 --> 00:26:05.359
You know,

983
00:26:05.390 --> 00:26:05.469
it's,

984
00:26:05.579 --> 00:26:06.140
it's one thing

985
00:26:06.589 --> 00:26:08.599
to have a 20 year old come into your office and go,

986
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:09.540
I'm thinking of

987
00:26:09.760 --> 00:26:10.739
taking this class,

988
00:26:11.239 --> 00:26:12.760
or I'm thinking of changing my major,

989
00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:13.439
please help me,

990
00:26:13.560 --> 00:26:14.000
right?

991
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:15.329
But then when you have like a,

992
00:26:15.449 --> 00:26:15.719
you know,

993
00:26:15.959 --> 00:26:17.439
30-something year old going,

994
00:26:17.520 --> 00:26:19.510
I'm thinking of making a major life decision,

995
00:26:19.630 --> 00:26:21.420
but I and I still value what you think,

996
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:22.900
that's kind of cool,

997
00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:23.640
you know.

998
00:26:23.719 --> 00:26:24.300
So anyway,

999
00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:25.089
so yeah,

1000
00:26:25.180 --> 00:26:25.589
uh,

1001
00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:27.180
if I was looking for a single memory

1002
00:26:27.479 --> 00:26:28.119
on study abroad,

1003
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:30.579
it certainly was that first time in the Acropolis with the students.

1004
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:31.739
Uh,

1005
00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:33.359
if I'm thinking about everything else,

1006
00:26:33.469 --> 00:26:35.040
it's just that interwoven sort of.

1007
00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:36.920
Sets of things,

1008
00:26:36.959 --> 00:26:37.500
I mean,

1009
00:26:37.979 --> 00:26:38.400
um.

1010
00:26:40.329 --> 00:26:40.680
Every

1011
00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:46.739
The other thing I would say is that

1012
00:26:47.410 --> 00:26:48.849
That feeling of

1013
00:26:50.150 --> 00:26:50.609
Sort of

1014
00:26:50.910 --> 00:26:51.219
almost

1015
00:26:51.959 --> 00:26:52.300
Uh,

1016
00:26:52.380 --> 00:26:53.680
pride for want of a better word.

1017
00:26:54.390 --> 00:26:54.900
Um,

1018
00:26:55.660 --> 00:26:58.420
Every time I see one of my students walk across the stage at graduation.

1019
00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:00.219
Uh,

1020
00:27:00.420 --> 00:27:01.339
my thesis students.

1021
00:27:02.089 --> 00:27:02.339
Uh,

1022
00:27:02.489 --> 00:27:04.150
because you know how hard they've worked and,

1023
00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:06.859
and you've helped them along and it's been rough.

1024
00:27:08.660 --> 00:27:09.680
That just the sense of

1025
00:27:10.689 --> 00:27:11.119
They did it.

1026
00:27:11.800 --> 00:27:12.439
You know,

1027
00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:14.510
that's an ongoing memory,

1028
00:27:14.520 --> 00:27:15.239
as it were.

1029
00:27:15.560 --> 00:27:17.420
It's an ongoing feeling because it happens twice a year.

1030
00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:19.209
Occasionally,

1031
00:27:19.329 --> 00:27:19.589
so

1032
00:27:22.530 --> 00:27:23.150
So

1033
00:27:23.410 --> 00:27:24.989
given your scientific background,

1034
00:27:25.650 --> 00:27:27.739
how do you bring that to

1035
00:27:27.930 --> 00:27:29.869
humanities courses like

1036
00:27:30.209 --> 00:27:32.270
the human events and your Greek,

1037
00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:33.400
uh,

1038
00:27:33.410 --> 00:27:34.260
classics

1039
00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:35.130
courses?

1040
00:27:35.239 --> 00:27:36.219
I try not to.

1041
00:27:37.089 --> 00:27:38.390
I try not to explicitly,

1042
00:27:38.650 --> 00:27:39.140
um,

1043
00:27:39.650 --> 00:27:41.030
so years ago,

1044
00:27:41.180 --> 00:27:41.599
um.

1045
00:27:42.719 --> 00:27:42.930
You know,

1046
00:27:43.050 --> 00:27:43.170
I,

1047
00:27:43.290 --> 00:27:43.900
I

1048
00:27:44.329 --> 00:27:44.829
teach things like,

1049
00:27:45.209 --> 00:27:45.400
you know,

1050
00:27:45.609 --> 00:27:47.170
Darwin and Newton's Principia.

1051
00:27:48.270 --> 00:27:48.839
My colleague

1052
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:52.060
Professor Foy still does all those sorts of things.

1053
00:27:52.439 --> 00:27:53.189
And I did it,

1054
00:27:53.479 --> 00:27:53.839
and then it,

1055
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:55.880
it turned into we had sort of a science focused.

1056
00:27:57.469 --> 00:27:58.199
273,

1057
00:27:58.239 --> 00:27:59.520
I think we called it at the time.

1058
00:28:00.439 --> 00:28:00.449
Uh

1059
00:28:01.280 --> 00:28:01.849
stream,

1060
00:28:01.930 --> 00:28:03.380
and then there was a social science stream,

1061
00:28:03.439 --> 00:28:05.119
and then there was a humanities stream.

1062
00:28:05.869 --> 00:28:06.089
Uh,

1063
00:28:06.189 --> 00:28:08.810
and I ended up doing the science focused one because whatever.

1064
00:28:09.750 --> 00:28:10.349
And

1065
00:28:10.709 --> 00:28:11.689
I found that

1066
00:28:11.829 --> 00:28:12.390
somewhat

1067
00:28:12.670 --> 00:28:13.170
um.

1068
00:28:14.900 --> 00:28:16.989
Unsatisfying both for me and the students

1069
00:28:17.420 --> 00:28:18.300
because

1070
00:28:18.780 --> 00:28:20.099
yeah we were reading Galileo,

1071
00:28:20.180 --> 00:28:20.619
we were reading,

1072
00:28:20.660 --> 00:28:20.780
you know,

1073
00:28:20.859 --> 00:28:23.300
some of the greatest hits in science and some stuff,

1074
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:24.579
science fiction and you know,

1075
00:28:24.819 --> 00:28:25.449
things that you can say science

1076
00:28:26.739 --> 00:28:27.189
and

1077
00:28:29.219 --> 00:28:29.660
Um,

1078
00:28:29.959 --> 00:28:30.520
the problem was,

1079
00:28:30.569 --> 00:28:33.000
was all the students in the section were like STEM majors.

1080
00:28:35.180 --> 00:28:36.060
And

1081
00:28:36.500 --> 00:28:37.650
they were expecting

1082
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:39.459
Science.

1083
00:28:40.380 --> 00:28:41.170
And I

1084
00:28:42.469 --> 00:28:43.459
Compared to 171,

1085
00:28:43.540 --> 00:28:43.979
which was,

1086
00:28:44.180 --> 00:28:45.020
which hadn't changed,

1087
00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:45.719
which was

1088
00:28:46.140 --> 00:28:48.369
a mix of STEM majors and humanities majors and stuff like that,

1089
00:28:48.380 --> 00:28:49.859
and design folks and

1090
00:28:50.099 --> 00:28:52.119
music therapy people and stuff like that,

1091
00:28:52.619 --> 00:28:53.160
um,

1092
00:28:53.859 --> 00:28:56.410
where you you got this diversity of perspectives and voices.

1093
00:28:56.859 --> 00:28:58.000
It was becoming

1094
00:28:58.459 --> 00:28:59.020
groupthink.

1095
00:29:00.089 --> 00:29:00.449
And,

1096
00:29:00.569 --> 00:29:02.000
and the idea actually was,

1097
00:29:02.609 --> 00:29:03.880
originally when it was first put together,

1098
00:29:03.930 --> 00:29:06.430
it wasn't for all the science majors to take the science version.

1099
00:29:07.579 --> 00:29:08.430
But for,

1100
00:29:08.510 --> 00:29:08.699
uh,

1101
00:29:08.829 --> 00:29:10.180
because there were only a few of us who could teach it,

1102
00:29:10.390 --> 00:29:11.910
myself and Joe Frey being the two,

1103
00:29:12.589 --> 00:29:13.430
and Tom Martin,

1104
00:29:14.709 --> 00:29:18.209
but the idea that they would know that my background was in science,

1105
00:29:18.709 --> 00:29:22.050
but there was some sort of miscommunication in it that never got across to people.

1106
00:29:22.750 --> 00:29:23.300
Um

1107
00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:26.109
The only way I use it now.

1108
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:26.890
I

1109
00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:29.479
when I have a student,

1110
00:29:29.959 --> 00:29:31.479
usually a STEM major,

1111
00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:32.160
who goes,

1112
00:29:32.239 --> 00:29:33.520
I can't do this.

1113
00:29:34.520 --> 00:29:35.989
Or this isn't interesting to me,

1114
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:38.119
or I see no value in this.

1115
00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:40.719
And then I can unreel my life story,

1116
00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:41.040
you know,

1117
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:41.319
look,

1118
00:29:41.439 --> 00:29:41.510
I,

1119
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:43.270
I have a terminal degree in biology,

1120
00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:45.939
I've published a lot of papers,

1121
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:48.219
and I can read

1122
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:49.119
the Iliad.

1123
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:51.410
And I can get something out of it.

1124
00:29:52.310 --> 00:29:53.560
So you can do it as well.

1125
00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:55.660
Um,

1126
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:57.569
so to use it more in that way,

1127
00:29:57.880 --> 00:29:58.520
to use my background,

1128
00:29:58.599 --> 00:30:00.060
not so much in the classroom,

1129
00:30:00.560 --> 00:30:02.680
but it sort of as a pedagogical tool to be able to go,

1130
00:30:02.760 --> 00:30:03.040
look,

1131
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:04.500
any of you can do this.

1132
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:07.020
There isn't something special about science

1133
00:30:07.520 --> 00:30:08.479
and the humanities.

1134
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:09.520
Right,

1135
00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:11.300
I think that artificial construct has,

1136
00:30:11.439 --> 00:30:12.939
has done way too much damage

1137
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:14.579
to the way I think students

1138
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:15.979
not only get taught.

1139
00:30:16.739 --> 00:30:17.459
Um,

1140
00:30:17.780 --> 00:30:18.130
but

1141
00:30:21.280 --> 00:30:21.839
how they're,

1142
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:24.819
how they're sort of channeled into things at a very early age.

1143
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:27.250
Um,

1144
00:30:27.530 --> 00:30:28.750
and I think that's unfortunate,

1145
00:30:29.130 --> 00:30:30.579
and I'm all for breaking down those,

1146
00:30:30.619 --> 00:30:31.459
those things.

1147
00:30:32.050 --> 00:30:32.530
So,

1148
00:30:32.619 --> 00:30:33.050
um,

1149
00:30:34.089 --> 00:30:34.209
You know,

1150
00:30:34.329 --> 00:30:34.520
other,

1151
00:30:34.569 --> 00:30:35.170
other than me

1152
00:30:35.369 --> 00:30:36.800
on the first day of class telling the students,

1153
00:30:36.849 --> 00:30:37.010
you know,

1154
00:30:37.050 --> 00:30:38.229
I got a PhD in biology,

1155
00:30:38.530 --> 00:30:39.170
so here we go.

1156
00:30:39.849 --> 00:30:40.780
And that's the last,

1157
00:30:40.979 --> 00:30:41.089
you know,

1158
00:30:41.140 --> 00:30:41.260
and,

1159
00:30:41.270 --> 00:30:42.079
and occasionally,

1160
00:30:42.660 --> 00:30:43.099
um.

1161
00:30:44.270 --> 00:30:45.040
I'll talk about,

1162
00:30:45.189 --> 00:30:45.310
you know,

1163
00:30:45.439 --> 00:30:47.089
I'll mention things like

1164
00:30:47.520 --> 00:30:49.869
how say certain aspects of quantum mechanics may

1165
00:30:49.869 --> 00:30:51.349
fit in with something we're talking about.

1166
00:30:51.430 --> 00:30:53.030
But that's more of a tangent rather than a

1167
00:30:54.140 --> 00:30:54.939
This is the main point.

1168
00:30:54.979 --> 00:30:56.869
I'm going to show you quantum mechanics.

1169
00:30:57.300 --> 00:30:59.479
How there may be multiple copies of you somewhere,

1170
00:30:59.660 --> 00:30:59.800
and,

1171
00:30:59.900 --> 00:31:00.020
you know,

1172
00:31:00.089 --> 00:31:01.040
all this sort of stuff.

1173
00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:02.020
Uh.

1174
00:31:02.969 --> 00:31:03.170
You know,

1175
00:31:03.329 --> 00:31:05.650
so it it it it it hovers around the edges,

1176
00:31:05.689 --> 00:31:06.510
but it's never in there.

1177
00:31:06.930 --> 00:31:08.880
And it certainly doesn't play any part in the

1178
00:31:09.949 --> 00:31:10.109
Well,

1179
00:31:10.589 --> 00:31:11.670
in the Greek tragedy course,

1180
00:31:11.869 --> 00:31:13.459
not so much in the trauma course,

1181
00:31:13.469 --> 00:31:14.650
a little bit in the sense that,

1182
00:31:14.869 --> 00:31:15.020
you know,

1183
00:31:15.109 --> 00:31:16.260
being able to talk about

1184
00:31:17.329 --> 00:31:20.750
Aspects of PTSD and stuff like that in scientific terms.

1185
00:31:21.479 --> 00:31:23.500
So everybody knows exactly what we're talking about.

1186
00:31:24.589 --> 00:31:25.069
But it,

1187
00:31:25.469 --> 00:31:25.630
you know,

1188
00:31:25.949 --> 00:31:27.030
anybody in the humanities,

1189
00:31:27.310 --> 00:31:27.420
and,

1190
00:31:27.750 --> 00:31:27.869
you know,

1191
00:31:28.010 --> 00:31:28.550
20 minutes in,

1192
00:31:28.630 --> 00:31:30.760
in on Wikipedia could do the same thing.

1193
00:31:31.339 --> 00:31:32.180
You see what I'm saying.

1194
00:31:33.239 --> 00:31:33.839
So that's my bad.

1195
00:31:35.430 --> 00:31:36.109
All right.

1196
00:31:37.050 --> 00:31:41.670
So what value do you see in the honors thesis that Senior Zabarre must complete?

1197
00:31:42.800 --> 00:31:43.229
Absolutely

1198
00:31:43.760 --> 00:31:43.780
none

1199
00:31:45.089 --> 00:31:45.829
That was a joke.

1200
00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:47.229
Um.

1201
00:31:48.859 --> 00:31:49.489
Uh,

1202
00:31:49.780 --> 00:31:49.939
I'll,

1203
00:31:50.020 --> 00:31:50.760
I will give you

1204
00:31:50.979 --> 00:31:51.060
uh.

1205
00:31:52.869 --> 00:31:54.410
A couple of things.

1206
00:31:55.040 --> 00:31:55.270
So I,

1207
00:31:55.349 --> 00:31:55.540
I,

1208
00:31:55.630 --> 00:31:56.609
I published with

1209
00:31:56.790 --> 00:31:58.260
my thesis students,

1210
00:31:58.630 --> 00:31:59.540
so for them,

1211
00:31:59.829 --> 00:31:59.979
you know,

1212
00:32:00.069 --> 00:32:02.290
applying to grad school with a publication

1213
00:32:02.550 --> 00:32:04.489
ready to go or whatever is a good thing.

1214
00:32:04.829 --> 00:32:05.410
So that's

1215
00:32:05.869 --> 00:32:07.069
completely practical and stuff like that.

1216
00:32:07.310 --> 00:32:10.430
But the vast majority of honors thesess don't get published in any form or function.

1217
00:32:11.260 --> 00:32:11.890
Um

1218
00:32:13.859 --> 00:32:16.599
I really encourage students to.

1219
00:32:18.579 --> 00:32:20.109
do a thesis outside their major.

1220
00:32:21.380 --> 00:32:21.979
Um,

1221
00:32:23.530 --> 00:32:25.010
As a way of.

1222
00:32:25.849 --> 00:32:26.459
In many cases,

1223
00:32:26.540 --> 00:32:26.939
for some of them,

1224
00:32:26.979 --> 00:32:27.979
scratching the itch

1225
00:32:28.420 --> 00:32:30.339
that existed ever since the human events.

1226
00:32:31.430 --> 00:32:31.989
So,

1227
00:32:32.030 --> 00:32:32.189
you know,

1228
00:32:32.310 --> 00:32:32.949
STEM majors,

1229
00:32:32.989 --> 00:32:33.540
for example,

1230
00:32:33.670 --> 00:32:35.329
who who did really like

1231
00:32:35.719 --> 00:32:36.390
Greek tragedy.

1232
00:32:37.670 --> 00:32:38.619
and wanted

1233
00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:41.189
To keep on doing something.

1234
00:32:42.479 --> 00:32:43.410
This is their opportunity.

1235
00:32:43.530 --> 00:32:45.530
It's probably the last opportunity that they will have,

1236
00:32:45.890 --> 00:32:47.969
particularly if they go on to grad school or something like that.

1237
00:32:49.469 --> 00:32:50.069
Um,

1238
00:32:51.300 --> 00:32:52.290
For a lot of students,

1239
00:32:52.449 --> 00:32:54.290
so a lot of students that I work with on thesis are,

1240
00:32:54.369 --> 00:32:55.339
are pre-med,

1241
00:32:55.849 --> 00:32:56.729
pre-health professions.

1242
00:32:58.030 --> 00:32:58.619
And

1243
00:32:58.910 --> 00:32:59.890
if you think about it,

1244
00:33:00.030 --> 00:33:00.510
um,

1245
00:33:04.989 --> 00:33:06.800
If you're in B and you have a good GPA.

1246
00:33:07.989 --> 00:33:09.469
And I probably go to MCAT score.

1247
00:33:10.670 --> 00:33:12.619
You're going to have some lab experience,

1248
00:33:12.869 --> 00:33:15.170
maybe over in Biodesign or someplace like that.

1249
00:33:15.670 --> 00:33:16.060
Uh,

1250
00:33:16.150 --> 00:33:18.349
you've probably shadowed a doctor at some point.

1251
00:33:18.800 --> 00:33:19.670
You may be involved with the,

1252
00:33:19.760 --> 00:33:21.209
the male program.

1253
00:33:21.750 --> 00:33:22.270
Um,

1254
00:33:24.569 --> 00:33:25.660
That's a lot of good stuff,

1255
00:33:26.060 --> 00:33:28.660
but if you're trying to get into a really good med school,

1256
00:33:29.020 --> 00:33:29.250
uh,

1257
00:33:29.459 --> 00:33:30.500
there's going to be a whole bunch of

1258
00:33:30.859 --> 00:33:32.180
students with the exact same profile,

1259
00:33:32.540 --> 00:33:32.619
right?

1260
00:33:32.660 --> 00:33:33.900
So how do you make yourself different?

1261
00:33:34.699 --> 00:33:37.000
And I think the thesis is a great way to do that.

1262
00:33:37.219 --> 00:33:37.750
So for example,

1263
00:33:37.900 --> 00:33:39.900
for the pre-health profession students that work with me,

1264
00:33:39.939 --> 00:33:40.010
I,

1265
00:33:40.180 --> 00:33:40.660
I'd say,

1266
00:33:41.020 --> 00:33:41.300
you know,

1267
00:33:41.500 --> 00:33:44.750
let's do something on bioethics or medical

1268
00:33:44.750 --> 00:33:46.619
policy or history of medicine or something.

1269
00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:51.959
And the reason I know this works is there is a student of mine

1270
00:33:52.239 --> 00:33:52.670
from

1271
00:33:52.969 --> 00:33:53.880
way back now.

1272
00:33:54.739 --> 00:33:55.300
Um

1273
00:33:55.910 --> 00:33:56.810
And she

1274
00:33:57.510 --> 00:33:57.930
had

1275
00:33:58.189 --> 00:33:59.260
thought that

1276
00:33:59.890 --> 00:34:01.910
she had been at the mail and she had noticed,

1277
00:34:02.189 --> 00:34:03.739
as it's unfortunately happening that

1278
00:34:04.790 --> 00:34:07.099
Patient doctor interactions were about 15 minutes,

1279
00:34:07.670 --> 00:34:08.270
and stacked in.

1280
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:09.438
And if,

1281
00:34:09.478 --> 00:34:10.100
if everything

1282
00:34:10.270 --> 00:34:11.320
couldn't be answered in that time,

1283
00:34:11.478 --> 00:34:13.500
basically the doctor ended up giving some literature to this,

1284
00:34:14.120 --> 00:34:14.780
to the

1285
00:34:15.560 --> 00:34:17.989
patient and said read this and get back to me if you have any questions,

1286
00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:18.438
right?

1287
00:34:19.489 --> 00:34:20.750
And she thought that was a little weird,

1288
00:34:21.208 --> 00:34:21.330
right?

1289
00:34:21.449 --> 00:34:22.870
She had a conversation with me.

1290
00:34:24.090 --> 00:34:26.679
And she was a biochemistry major and she had a conversation with me.

1291
00:34:27.100 --> 00:34:27.418
And I said,

1292
00:34:27.458 --> 00:34:27.570
well,

1293
00:34:27.610 --> 00:34:28.860
let's see what we can do about this.

1294
00:34:29.010 --> 00:34:29.260
And she said,

1295
00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:29.418
well,

1296
00:34:29.489 --> 00:34:30.370
what I want to do is

1297
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:33.040
analyze the literature that's been given out

1298
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:36.560
for just something as really simple as readability.

1299
00:34:36.938 --> 00:34:37.100
You know,

1300
00:34:37.139 --> 00:34:38.370
that magic number you can get,

1301
00:34:38.500 --> 00:34:38.620
you know,

1302
00:34:38.708 --> 00:34:39.938
using Word or something like,

1303
00:34:40.110 --> 00:34:40.250
you know,

1304
00:34:40.418 --> 00:34:41.850
what grade level your writing is.

1305
00:34:41.978 --> 00:34:43.418
It always depresses people.

1306
00:34:44.217 --> 00:34:44.858
Um.

1307
00:34:45.820 --> 00:34:46.389
4th grade,

1308
00:34:46.469 --> 00:34:46.889
really?

1309
00:34:47.110 --> 00:34:47.629
Um,

1310
00:34:48.510 --> 00:34:49.149
so that's all she did.

1311
00:34:49.389 --> 00:34:50.030
She scanned them in,

1312
00:34:50.100 --> 00:34:50.800
she analyzed them,

1313
00:34:50.909 --> 00:34:51.228
whatever,

1314
00:34:51.270 --> 00:34:53.090
and then looked at literacy values,

1315
00:34:53.290 --> 00:34:53.510
right?

1316
00:34:53.629 --> 00:34:54.310
And

1317
00:34:54.708 --> 00:34:57.250
she found there was this huge disparity between

1318
00:34:57.629 --> 00:34:59.290
the higher level that these

1319
00:34:59.629 --> 00:34:59.649
uh

1320
00:35:00.550 --> 00:35:05.610
literature was expecting versus the average literacy of folks in Arizona

1321
00:35:05.909 --> 00:35:07.010
and and nationwide.

1322
00:35:08.379 --> 00:35:08.570
So,

1323
00:35:08.580 --> 00:35:12.959
she then made some suggestions to the to the male educational um.

1324
00:35:14.389 --> 00:35:15.629
About how they should change things or whatever.

1325
00:35:15.860 --> 00:35:17.070
She so she wrote this up as a thesis.

1326
00:35:18.020 --> 00:35:18.560
Um,

1327
00:35:18.939 --> 00:35:20.439
what that gave her was two things.

1328
00:35:20.850 --> 00:35:21.219
Um,

1329
00:35:21.419 --> 00:35:22.530
as she was writing it up,

1330
00:35:23.020 --> 00:35:25.010
she was working on her statement from med school.

1331
00:35:25.379 --> 00:35:27.300
So she was able to talk about,

1332
00:35:27.699 --> 00:35:29.280
rather than turn around and say,

1333
00:35:29.729 --> 00:35:29.739
oh,

1334
00:35:29.899 --> 00:35:31.389
I want to be a doctor because,

1335
00:35:31.620 --> 00:35:34.260
which is the standard first draft that everybody does,

1336
00:35:35.020 --> 00:35:37.719
she was able to talk explicitly about

1337
00:35:38.139 --> 00:35:38.879
the importance of,

1338
00:35:38.979 --> 00:35:39.899
of,

1339
00:35:39.909 --> 00:35:39.919
uh,

1340
00:35:40.020 --> 00:35:40.739
patient communication,

1341
00:35:40.820 --> 00:35:41.979
doctor-patient communication,

1342
00:35:42.139 --> 00:35:43.840
and how she realized that importance

1343
00:35:44.020 --> 00:35:45.239
and how she's been studying it,

1344
00:35:45.300 --> 00:35:45.699
etc.

1345
00:35:45.739 --> 00:35:46.100
etc.

1346
00:35:47.250 --> 00:35:47.750
Uh,

1347
00:35:48.250 --> 00:35:49.489
so she applied to a whole bunch of schools,

1348
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:50.439
some really good,

1349
00:35:50.620 --> 00:35:51.370
good schools,

1350
00:35:51.770 --> 00:35:53.770
and she got an interview for every one of them.

1351
00:35:54.770 --> 00:35:57.260
And every single interview started with,

1352
00:35:57.729 --> 00:35:59.770
so you're interested in doctor-patient communication?

1353
00:36:00.050 --> 00:36:00.770
Talk to me about that.

1354
00:36:01.770 --> 00:36:02.050
Right.

1355
00:36:02.780 --> 00:36:03.899
And she was the expert in the room.

1356
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:05.800
She had numbers,

1357
00:36:06.310 --> 00:36:06.320
she,

1358
00:36:06.560 --> 00:36:06.639
she,

1359
00:36:07.120 --> 00:36:07.350
she had,

1360
00:36:07.600 --> 00:36:08.320
she had a phone,

1361
00:36:08.439 --> 00:36:08.790
she would have

1362
00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:10.840
pulled out a PowerPoint or something like that,

1363
00:36:10.870 --> 00:36:11.189
or whatever.

1364
00:36:11.479 --> 00:36:13.639
She was totally in charge of every single interview.

1365
00:36:13.919 --> 00:36:16.739
She got into every single one of those medical schools.

1366
00:36:17.649 --> 00:36:18.280
Right.

1367
00:36:18.810 --> 00:36:19.959
That is the power of the thesis.

1368
00:36:20.830 --> 00:36:20.840
Right.

1369
00:36:21.750 --> 00:36:22.229
Uh,

1370
00:36:22.590 --> 00:36:24.489
it allows you to become the expert on something.

1371
00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:26.780
that you may be able to leverage,

1372
00:36:26.959 --> 00:36:28.909
whether it's grad school applications,

1373
00:36:29.479 --> 00:36:30.020
or even

1374
00:36:30.750 --> 00:36:30.979
You know,

1375
00:36:31.129 --> 00:36:31.739
med school,

1376
00:36:32.060 --> 00:36:33.820
or even just because you want to do it.

1377
00:36:34.520 --> 00:36:35.040
You know,

1378
00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:35.679
um,

1379
00:36:36.709 --> 00:36:36.969
So,

1380
00:36:37.129 --> 00:36:37.409
that's,

1381
00:36:37.689 --> 00:36:38.429
it's also,

1382
00:36:39.129 --> 00:36:40.010
I'll flip at the other side and say,

1383
00:36:40.050 --> 00:36:41.510
what's the value of it for me?

1384
00:36:42.250 --> 00:36:43.020
I've worked on

1385
00:36:44.129 --> 00:36:45.929
So many such diverse things.

1386
00:36:46.669 --> 00:36:48.350
I've done scientific work with students.

1387
00:36:48.389 --> 00:36:49.070
I've done

1388
00:36:49.790 --> 00:36:49.959
um

1389
00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:50.909
You know,

1390
00:36:51.129 --> 00:36:52.750
doctor patient communication.

1391
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:54.840
I've done historical stuff and whatever.

1392
00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:55.760
Uh,

1393
00:36:56.560 --> 00:36:57.560
my last student,

1394
00:36:58.020 --> 00:36:58.100
um,

1395
00:36:58.439 --> 00:37:00.439
just finished writing a letter of recommendation for,

1396
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:00.899
uh,

1397
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:01.899
worked on

1398
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:04.479
rugby and American sports culture.

1399
00:37:05.250 --> 00:37:05.949
Uh,

1400
00:37:06.530 --> 00:37:06.770
for me,

1401
00:37:06.810 --> 00:37:07.580
this is great.

1402
00:37:07.729 --> 00:37:08.120
I'm like,

1403
00:37:08.169 --> 00:37:08.409
you know.

1404
00:37:09.330 --> 00:37:11.260
Give me all these things that I get to work on

1405
00:37:11.260 --> 00:37:13.129
and and you're gonna have to do the hard work,

1406
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:13.479
right?

1407
00:37:13.560 --> 00:37:15.300
I'm just there to make sure you don't

1408
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:17.159
say anything stupid or

1409
00:37:17.600 --> 00:37:20.219
you're working in profitable directions or whatever,

1410
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:21.399
um,

1411
00:37:21.919 --> 00:37:22.260
but

1412
00:37:22.439 --> 00:37:24.139
so I learned quite a lot out of these things,

1413
00:37:24.520 --> 00:37:25.360
so that's fun as well.

1414
00:37:26.129 --> 00:37:26.219
You know,

1415
00:37:26.500 --> 00:37:26.860
so

1416
00:37:27.179 --> 00:37:27.300
yeah,

1417
00:37:27.379 --> 00:37:27.860
it's.

1418
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:30.320
There are very fewer

1419
00:37:32.429 --> 00:37:33.870
Sort of more traditional departments,

1420
00:37:33.919 --> 00:37:34.199
for example.

1421
00:37:34.270 --> 00:37:34.770
I'm thinking like,

1422
00:37:35.040 --> 00:37:35.080
say,

1423
00:37:35.120 --> 00:37:35.870
in life sciences,

1424
00:37:35.879 --> 00:37:38.760
where you would have an opportunity to work with the student on

1425
00:37:40.149 --> 00:37:41.389
Rugby and American culture.

1426
00:37:42.689 --> 00:37:43.040
That's kind of

1427
00:37:45.080 --> 00:37:45.689
All right.

1428
00:37:45.919 --> 00:37:48.100
So can you tell me a little bit about,

1429
00:37:48.479 --> 00:37:48.709
uh,

1430
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:52.899
the duties you're given as faculty chair for Barrett and what that consists of?

1431
00:37:54.739 --> 00:37:55.110
Uh,

1432
00:37:55.229 --> 00:37:55.550
OK,

1433
00:37:55.739 --> 00:37:56.610
so I.

1434
00:37:58.520 --> 00:37:59.570
I'm no longer the faculty chair,

1435
00:37:59.620 --> 00:38:01.010
but I was the faculty chair,

1436
00:38:02.110 --> 00:38:02.850
um,

1437
00:38:04.379 --> 00:38:04.629
OK,

1438
00:38:04.709 --> 00:38:06.629
so there's there's there's a bunch of things.

1439
00:38:06.830 --> 00:38:08.889
There's sort of representational things

1440
00:38:09.189 --> 00:38:10.510
where uh

1441
00:38:10.830 --> 00:38:11.489
you represent

1442
00:38:11.909 --> 00:38:13.209
the faculty to the deans.

1443
00:38:14.070 --> 00:38:14.550
Meetings,

1444
00:38:14.870 --> 00:38:16.590
you represent deans and the faculty

1445
00:38:16.870 --> 00:38:17.510
in meetings,

1446
00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:19.790
so you're sort of a conduit for all those sorts of things.

1447
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:21.040
Um,

1448
00:38:21.159 --> 00:38:23.620
you're part of the sort of decision making.

1449
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:26.820
The leadership team in Barrett as a whole.

1450
00:38:27.560 --> 00:38:28.750
So that's not only the deans,

1451
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:31.560
but also various staff individuals and stuff like that.

1452
00:38:32.750 --> 00:38:33.550
Um

1453
00:38:34.270 --> 00:38:34.280
You

1454
00:38:36.070 --> 00:38:38.189
represent Barrett to the university at large.

1455
00:38:39.179 --> 00:38:40.179
At various meetings,

1456
00:38:40.530 --> 00:38:41.409
there's a lot of meetings.

1457
00:38:41.659 --> 00:38:43.260
That's that's the take home from this,

1458
00:38:43.340 --> 00:38:44.000
I think.

1459
00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:44.590
Um,

1460
00:38:45.739 --> 00:38:46.459
and,

1461
00:38:46.820 --> 00:38:47.129
uh.

1462
00:38:48.520 --> 00:38:53.389
Occasionally you'll also represent Barrett to outside parties that come in.

1463
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:54.080
So,

1464
00:38:54.399 --> 00:38:56.229
Barrett is successful enough that we have

1465
00:38:57.780 --> 00:39:00.689
individuals from university that either have existing honors programs.

1466
00:39:01.310 --> 00:39:02.219
Or colleges,

1467
00:39:02.469 --> 00:39:03.649
or want to develop them,

1468
00:39:03.830 --> 00:39:04.810
for them to come in and

1469
00:39:06.229 --> 00:39:07.320
Attempt to steal our ideas,

1470
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:08.070
as it were.

1471
00:39:08.399 --> 00:39:09.320
But we're fairly welcoming,

1472
00:39:09.399 --> 00:39:09.959
they come in,

1473
00:39:10.120 --> 00:39:10.879
we meet with them.

1474
00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:12.340
So the chair usually gets to

1475
00:39:12.560 --> 00:39:13.419
meet with groups

1476
00:39:13.879 --> 00:39:16.439
of those as well and answer their specific questions about things.

1477
00:39:18.129 --> 00:39:18.770
Um

1478
00:39:19.979 --> 00:39:21.550
That's the meeting aspect of it.

1479
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:22.129
Uh,

1480
00:39:22.330 --> 00:39:24.370
then there's sort of the procedural stuff.

1481
00:39:24.610 --> 00:39:25.310
There's a lot of

1482
00:39:25.530 --> 00:39:25.969
paperwork.

1483
00:39:26.129 --> 00:39:26.169
So,

1484
00:39:26.179 --> 00:39:27.449
it's either meetings or paperwork.

1485
00:39:27.739 --> 00:39:28.370
It's,

1486
00:39:28.610 --> 00:39:30.030
it's like something out of the office.

1487
00:39:30.449 --> 00:39:31.250
Um.

1488
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:32.820
That

1489
00:39:33.040 --> 00:39:37.030
the chair ultimately does the annual evaluations of all faculty members.

1490
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:38.060
Everybody

1491
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:39.300
has an annual review.

1492
00:39:41.030 --> 00:39:42.189
While there's a committee that

1493
00:39:42.989 --> 00:39:43.389
Does

1494
00:39:43.770 --> 00:39:45.209
most of the hard work about it.

1495
00:39:45.709 --> 00:39:46.149
Um,

1496
00:39:46.810 --> 00:39:48.729
the chair's the one who writes the final annual review.

1497
00:39:49.929 --> 00:39:50.370
Uh,

1498
00:39:50.530 --> 00:39:52.350
there's a promotion work.

1499
00:39:53.209 --> 00:39:53.840
Uh

1500
00:39:54.580 --> 00:39:55.290
The chair

1501
00:39:55.510 --> 00:39:57.409
also writes letters for promotions,

1502
00:39:57.590 --> 00:39:59.909
and recommendations for promotions and contracts.

1503
00:40:00.610 --> 00:40:00.959
And

1504
00:40:01.169 --> 00:40:02.060
all that sort of good stuff.

1505
00:40:02.879 --> 00:40:03.709
Um,

1506
00:40:04.669 --> 00:40:07.399
And then there's everything from as mundane as like

1507
00:40:07.750 --> 00:40:10.149
authorizing grade changes to

1508
00:40:11.030 --> 00:40:14.750
The hours worked by our faculty assistant and

1509
00:40:14.939 --> 00:40:16.479
so it's bureaucracy basically

1510
00:40:16.939 --> 00:40:17.540
um.

1511
00:40:18.629 --> 00:40:19.909
It's got good things and bad things.

1512
00:40:20.860 --> 00:40:21.399
But

1513
00:40:22.110 --> 00:40:22.300
yeah,

1514
00:40:22.780 --> 00:40:23.530
it sounds cynical,

1515
00:40:23.699 --> 00:40:25.320
but the paperwork and meetings,

1516
00:40:25.860 --> 00:40:26.060
you know,

1517
00:40:26.260 --> 00:40:27.409
but it's also an opportunity.

1518
00:40:27.459 --> 00:40:27.739
I mean,

1519
00:40:27.780 --> 00:40:28.500
you can.

1520
00:40:29.570 --> 00:40:30.270
Um

1521
00:40:33.270 --> 00:40:33.560
Change,

1522
00:40:33.870 --> 00:40:34.550
change things.

1523
00:40:34.870 --> 00:40:35.030
I mean,

1524
00:40:35.070 --> 00:40:35.629
it's not just,

1525
00:40:35.709 --> 00:40:35.899
you know,

1526
00:40:36.110 --> 00:40:38.250
sort of like a civil servant where you have to do everything,

1527
00:40:38.429 --> 00:40:38.550
you know,

1528
00:40:38.629 --> 00:40:39.090
and you're just

1529
00:40:39.229 --> 00:40:40.280
a cog in a machine.

1530
00:40:40.669 --> 00:40:41.110
Um,

1531
00:40:41.350 --> 00:40:41.590
you can,

1532
00:40:41.669 --> 00:40:42.669
you can alter the machine.

1533
00:40:43.459 --> 00:40:43.729
Um,

1534
00:40:43.820 --> 00:40:44.580
and that's,

1535
00:40:45.020 --> 00:40:45.820
that's challenging,

1536
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:46.459
right?

1537
00:40:46.699 --> 00:40:48.979
There are a lot of moving parts in the machine and you can't just

1538
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.290
Thinker one bit and expect everything to keep on working the way it is.

1539
00:40:52.929 --> 00:40:53.610
Um,

1540
00:40:54.370 --> 00:40:55.929
So it's an opportunity to do that.

1541
00:40:56.199 --> 00:40:57.810
It's also an opportunity to to.

1542
00:40:59.780 --> 00:41:00.520
Help your colleagues.

1543
00:41:01.540 --> 00:41:01.889
Uh,

1544
00:41:02.010 --> 00:41:03.129
either when things go wrong.

1545
00:41:04.469 --> 00:41:04.899
Um,

1546
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:09.060
Or er to encourage them and enable them to

1547
00:41:09.790 --> 00:41:10.479
achieve things.

1548
00:41:11.209 --> 00:41:11.219
that

1549
00:41:12.010 --> 00:41:14.129
either they had been thinking about or hadn't thought about it.

1550
00:41:15.080 --> 00:41:15.739
Um,

1551
00:41:16.100 --> 00:41:16.750
and that's particularly true,

1552
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:17.040
I think,

1553
00:41:17.120 --> 00:41:17.429
for,

1554
00:41:17.439 --> 00:41:17.850
uh,

1555
00:41:18.419 --> 00:41:18.709
um.

1556
00:41:20.459 --> 00:41:23.459
Or more junior colleagues who are like only starting doing all of this,

1557
00:41:23.580 --> 00:41:25.159
they are sometimes like oh I don't know.

1558
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:28.239
How to do X or,

1559
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:28.840
or,

1560
00:41:29.030 --> 00:41:29.120
you know,

1561
00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:30.280
I want to do Y,

1562
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:33.139
and figuring out ways to enable them to do that,

1563
00:41:33.149 --> 00:41:34.879
so they are satisfied with their job,

1564
00:41:35.149 --> 00:41:36.639
so they don't feel stressed.

1565
00:41:37.479 --> 00:41:38.159
Um,

1566
00:41:38.560 --> 00:41:38.919
and,

1567
00:41:39.040 --> 00:41:41.070
and encouraging them so they can

1568
00:41:41.729 --> 00:41:41.850
You know,

1569
00:41:41.969 --> 00:41:43.989
they can succeed not only in the classroom,

1570
00:41:44.010 --> 00:41:44.330
but as,

1571
00:41:44.449 --> 00:41:45.449
as professionals in general.

1572
00:41:46.310 --> 00:41:46.969
So that's

1573
00:41:47.389 --> 00:41:48.629
a certain amount of what goes on as well.

1574
00:41:50.739 --> 00:41:54.330
So why do you think so many other universities and colleges

1575
00:41:54.330 --> 00:41:58.260
are so eager to model their honors colleges off of Barrett?

1576
00:41:59.270 --> 00:42:01.030
Because we're number one in innovation,

1577
00:42:01.350 --> 00:42:02.270
um,

1578
00:42:02.550 --> 00:42:03.790
I was paid to say that no,

1579
00:42:03.909 --> 00:42:04.620
um.

1580
00:42:09.340 --> 00:42:09.500
I,

1581
00:42:09.570 --> 00:42:10.139
I think.

1582
00:42:13.530 --> 00:42:14.409
I'm not a huge fan of,

1583
00:42:14.489 --> 00:42:14.689
of,

1584
00:42:14.810 --> 00:42:15.290
of the,

1585
00:42:15.649 --> 00:42:16.550
the gold standard

1586
00:42:16.729 --> 00:42:17.189
thing

1587
00:42:17.370 --> 00:42:17.669
because

1588
00:42:17.929 --> 00:42:18.489
it just.

1589
00:42:20.040 --> 00:42:22.100
To my ears it doesn't sound right,

1590
00:42:22.560 --> 00:42:23.000
but

1591
00:42:23.479 --> 00:42:23.979
we are

1592
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:26.199
definitely the best honors college in the country.

1593
00:42:26.479 --> 00:42:26.600
I,

1594
00:42:27.040 --> 00:42:27.379
I,

1595
00:42:27.879 --> 00:42:30.080
I think if I wasn't working here I would already know it,

1596
00:42:30.120 --> 00:42:32.649
and that's what those colleges and universities know.

1597
00:42:33.429 --> 00:42:33.560
um.

1598
00:42:34.379 --> 00:42:34.739
That

1599
00:42:35.830 --> 00:42:37.820
Over the last 30 years.

1600
00:42:39.139 --> 00:42:39.739
Consciously,

1601
00:42:39.860 --> 00:42:40.939
and I think to a certain degree,

1602
00:42:41.020 --> 00:42:42.040
subconsciously,

1603
00:42:42.340 --> 00:42:42.879
um

1604
00:42:43.879 --> 00:42:45.379
We've evolved into a

1605
00:42:47.510 --> 00:42:48.120
Unit

1606
00:42:49.189 --> 00:42:49.909
Where?

1607
00:42:50.729 --> 00:42:52.199
We're able to.

1608
00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:54.739
Uh,

1609
00:42:55.030 --> 00:42:57.010
provide opportunities to students.

1610
00:42:58.790 --> 00:43:00.129
And at the same time

1611
00:43:00.550 --> 00:43:02.570
remain relatively small.

1612
00:43:03.189 --> 00:43:03.540
So,

1613
00:43:03.669 --> 00:43:05.850
the thing we usually throw around is the idea that we're

1614
00:43:05.850 --> 00:43:09.189
a small liberal arts college within a larger research university.

1615
00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:11.169
And I think that's true.

1616
00:43:11.409 --> 00:43:13.969
It's it became particularly more true when we moved into

1617
00:43:14.459 --> 00:43:15.949
the new campus here,

1618
00:43:16.449 --> 00:43:17.310
the new buildings,

1619
00:43:18.489 --> 00:43:19.669
because Hogwarts are not,

1620
00:43:20.010 --> 00:43:20.840
gates are not,

1621
00:43:20.889 --> 00:43:23.669
it still made it sort of feel like a smaller place,

1622
00:43:23.929 --> 00:43:24.090
you know,

1623
00:43:24.590 --> 00:43:25.459
you walk down the

1624
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:26.250
breezeway,

1625
00:43:26.290 --> 00:43:28.810
you run into students and you go to the dining hall,

1626
00:43:28.850 --> 00:43:29.649
you run into students.

1627
00:43:31.550 --> 00:43:32.120
Excuse me,

1628
00:43:32.600 --> 00:43:33.000
um,

1629
00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:36.280
But we're surrounded by this.

1630
00:43:37.209 --> 00:43:38.330
Sea resources.

1631
00:43:39.810 --> 00:43:41.520
And um.

1632
00:43:43.330 --> 00:43:44.750
So that enables a student

1633
00:43:44.969 --> 00:43:46.850
to feel like they're part of a smaller community.

1634
00:43:48.280 --> 00:43:49.320
Yet at the same time

1635
00:43:50.270 --> 00:43:51.610
Have everything they could possibly want.

1636
00:43:52.729 --> 00:43:54.110
And I think that's one of the reasons

1637
00:43:54.530 --> 00:43:55.489
we do attract students,

1638
00:43:55.540 --> 00:43:56.179
in-state students,

1639
00:43:56.199 --> 00:43:56.530
for example,

1640
00:43:57.209 --> 00:43:58.860
who could have gone to um

1641
00:43:59.919 --> 00:44:01.429
California schools or something like that.

1642
00:44:02.290 --> 00:44:02.610
Uh,

1643
00:44:02.850 --> 00:44:03.469
because they wanted

1644
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:04.699
the individualized attention,

1645
00:44:04.729 --> 00:44:05.949
but it was so expensive.

1646
00:44:06.399 --> 00:44:06.600
Um,

1647
00:44:07.330 --> 00:44:07.399
so,

1648
00:44:07.590 --> 00:44:10.050
so I think it's that sort of combination thing that we've got,

1649
00:44:10.189 --> 00:44:10.889
we've somehow we've

1650
00:44:11.570 --> 00:44:12.709
consciously put together

1651
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:13.340
an

1652
00:44:14.330 --> 00:44:15.310
educational experience.

1653
00:44:16.129 --> 00:44:16.139
That

1654
00:44:16.929 --> 00:44:17.169
if,

1655
00:44:17.290 --> 00:44:18.290
and I think this is really important,

1656
00:44:18.409 --> 00:44:20.649
if a student decides to take advantage of it.

1657
00:44:21.739 --> 00:44:21.750
But

1658
00:44:22.500 --> 00:44:23.739
can give wonderful things.

1659
00:44:24.479 --> 00:44:24.879
So if you,

1660
00:44:24.959 --> 00:44:25.239
for example,

1661
00:44:25.399 --> 00:44:27.060
see the thesis as an opportunity

1662
00:44:27.520 --> 00:44:28.020
rather than

1663
00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:29.500
something I have to do,

1664
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:30.399
right,

1665
00:44:30.919 --> 00:44:32.639
you're going to have a radically different experience.

1666
00:44:33.860 --> 00:44:34.280
Uh,

1667
00:44:34.659 --> 00:44:35.030
and you know,

1668
00:44:35.139 --> 00:44:35.330
it's,

1669
00:44:35.379 --> 00:44:35.820
it's fair enough.

1670
00:44:35.860 --> 00:44:38.719
I mean some students come in with the idea of checking all the boxes.

1671
00:44:38.929 --> 00:44:42.020
I'm really only doing this so I can enroll you for courses early,

1672
00:44:42.139 --> 00:44:44.010
get registration early or something like that.

1673
00:44:44.260 --> 00:44:45.949
I mean we all know one of those students,

1674
00:44:46.060 --> 00:44:46.479
right?

1675
00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:47.399
Um,

1676
00:44:47.699 --> 00:44:50.060
and then there are students who just embrace the whole thing,

1677
00:44:50.219 --> 00:44:50.330
uh,

1678
00:44:50.459 --> 00:44:51.699
get involved with,

1679
00:44:51.899 --> 00:44:52.370
you know,

1680
00:44:52.659 --> 00:44:53.520
service projects,

1681
00:44:53.620 --> 00:44:57.500
get involved with the day to day running of the college or like yourself doing this,

1682
00:44:57.580 --> 00:44:58.399
for example,

1683
00:44:58.739 --> 00:44:59.010
um,

1684
00:44:59.260 --> 00:45:00.600
who say this is an opportunity to.

1685
00:45:01.169 --> 00:45:03.500
be part of something bigger and and and get

1686
00:45:03.500 --> 00:45:05.750
these opportunities and all that sort of stuff.

1687
00:45:06.260 --> 00:45:07.600
And then there are students in the middle,

1688
00:45:08.179 --> 00:45:08.340
right?

1689
00:45:08.469 --> 00:45:08.850
But

1690
00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:09.270
I,

1691
00:45:09.350 --> 00:45:09.459
I,

1692
00:45:09.570 --> 00:45:10.080
I think

1693
00:45:10.300 --> 00:45:11.340
one of the reasons we are the

1694
00:45:12.139 --> 00:45:14.520
The best honors college is also because

1695
00:45:14.899 --> 00:45:17.739
I believe what's happened to ASU.

1696
00:45:19.310 --> 00:45:20.500
In my time here.

1697
00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:21.679
Uh,

1698
00:45:21.760 --> 00:45:22.780
my 24 years here,

1699
00:45:23.669 --> 00:45:23.679
uh,

1700
00:45:23.919 --> 00:45:25.280
that change has been so radical.

1701
00:45:25.989 --> 00:45:26.270
And it's,

1702
00:45:26.320 --> 00:45:29.760
but it's enabled so many opportunities to exist as well.

1703
00:45:29.879 --> 00:45:30.260
So,

1704
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:31.760
the the sort of

1705
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:33.239
intersection between

1706
00:45:34.149 --> 00:45:37.030
What Barrett was able to do and what ASU has been able to do,

1707
00:45:37.379 --> 00:45:37.889
I think

1708
00:45:38.149 --> 00:45:39.010
makes

1709
00:45:39.810 --> 00:45:40.199
Both

1710
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:41.379
things.

1711
00:45:42.139 --> 00:45:42.530
Better.

1712
00:45:43.629 --> 00:45:44.280
And for us,

1713
00:45:44.399 --> 00:45:47.040
it's the fact that we then have universities and colleges coming

1714
00:45:47.040 --> 00:45:48.600
over here and trying to figure out how we do it.

1715
00:45:49.659 --> 00:45:50.169
That makes sense?

1716
00:45:50.580 --> 00:45:50.780
OK.

1717
00:45:52.120 --> 00:45:52.399
Uh,

1718
00:45:52.560 --> 00:45:55.199
so what is the value of Barrett for Arizona in general,

1719
00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:55.820
do you think?

1720
00:46:01.590 --> 00:46:04.760
I'm sure if you asked some administrator over in Fulton,

1721
00:46:05.139 --> 00:46:08.060
they'd have a dollar value that they'd be able to give you,

1722
00:46:08.219 --> 00:46:08.760
you know.

1723
00:46:10.580 --> 00:46:13.370
I think pragmatically one of the things we do is

1724
00:46:14.060 --> 00:46:14.860
We keep

1725
00:46:17.510 --> 00:46:18.030
The best

1726
00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:19.270
students

1727
00:46:19.500 --> 00:46:20.250
from Arizona,

1728
00:46:20.330 --> 00:46:21.050
in Arizona.

1729
00:46:21.899 --> 00:46:22.260
So,

1730
00:46:22.429 --> 00:46:23.590
it's generally known that

1731
00:46:24.459 --> 00:46:25.739
If you go away.

1732
00:46:26.850 --> 00:46:28.310
You're less likely to come back,

1733
00:46:29.010 --> 00:46:29.530
so.

1734
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:31.129
Um,

1735
00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:32.340
resources that,

1736
00:46:32.560 --> 00:46:33.120
say for example,

1737
00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:33.709
the State,

1738
00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:36.159
and unfortunately the State doesn't put enough resources into it,

1739
00:46:36.770 --> 00:46:36.909
pump

1740
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:38.879
pump into a good student in high school.

1741
00:46:39.610 --> 00:46:39.620
Then

1742
00:46:40.120 --> 00:46:40.209
they

1743
00:46:40.409 --> 00:46:42.030
that those resources ultimately leave.

1744
00:46:42.989 --> 00:46:43.649
Um,

1745
00:46:44.149 --> 00:46:46.800
and so if we get good high achieving students

1746
00:46:47.110 --> 00:46:47.649
who,

1747
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:48.550
uh,

1748
00:46:49.070 --> 00:46:52.620
for whatever reason could get into the Stanford's or

1749
00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:55.899
Berkeley or you know whatever.

1750
00:46:56.600 --> 00:46:57.820
And instead go,

1751
00:46:58.239 --> 00:47:00.500
I'm going to stay in Arizona because I can get a similar

1752
00:47:01.080 --> 00:47:01.979
or even better

1753
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:04.239
experience in many ways.

1754
00:47:04.850 --> 00:47:05.489
Um,

1755
00:47:06.959 --> 00:47:08.000
Here at ASU

1756
00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:08.879
because of our,

1757
00:47:09.439 --> 00:47:11.110
because of all these resources that we have,

1758
00:47:11.439 --> 00:47:13.080
because of the opportunities that we get.

1759
00:47:13.830 --> 00:47:14.429
Um.

1760
00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:16.659
And I can do it cheaper,

1761
00:47:17.209 --> 00:47:17.449
right,

1762
00:47:17.810 --> 00:47:21.209
because I've got a president's scholarship or something like that.

1763
00:47:21.649 --> 00:47:22.350
That's the value

1764
00:47:22.989 --> 00:47:23.689
for Arizona.

1765
00:47:24.709 --> 00:47:26.290
Because I look at what some of

1766
00:47:26.550 --> 00:47:27.679
our students do

1767
00:47:27.989 --> 00:47:28.750
in the community.

1768
00:47:29.949 --> 00:47:30.699
Um,

1769
00:47:31.989 --> 00:47:32.689
And

1770
00:47:33.030 --> 00:47:33.909
because they're staying here.

1771
00:47:34.830 --> 00:47:35.860
Because they're not on the west coast,

1772
00:47:36.020 --> 00:47:37.159
because they're not on the east coast.

1773
00:47:37.620 --> 00:47:37.770
Um,

1774
00:47:38.419 --> 00:47:40.179
and I think that's that's the trickle down as well.

1775
00:47:40.409 --> 00:47:40.639
So,

1776
00:47:40.750 --> 00:47:41.439
I was

1777
00:47:41.979 --> 00:47:43.729
one of the things that Barrett has put in place is,

1778
00:47:44.129 --> 00:47:45.810
it used to be the Circumnavigators Award,

1779
00:47:45.820 --> 00:47:46.820
which was

1780
00:47:47.800 --> 00:47:48.909
An outside group

1781
00:47:49.570 --> 00:47:50.790
which would fund

1782
00:47:50.969 --> 00:47:52.870
a student to go one way around the world.

1783
00:47:54.909 --> 00:47:57.439
In their summer between their junior and senior year,

1784
00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:00.149
and they could stop off at up to 6 places,

1785
00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:01.360
and they have to do a research project.

1786
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:03.530
Fantastic experience for someone.

1787
00:48:04.830 --> 00:48:04.899
Well,

1788
00:48:04.949 --> 00:48:06.669
the circumnavigators no longer did it.

1789
00:48:07.620 --> 00:48:08.090
Uh,

1790
00:48:08.149 --> 00:48:08.830
and,

1791
00:48:08.989 --> 00:48:09.110
uh,

1792
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:10.830
Byt stepped in

1793
00:48:12.010 --> 00:48:14.909
Dean Jacobs decided that we would fund one of these things.

1794
00:48:15.209 --> 00:48:16.209
And then we got some outside,

1795
00:48:16.449 --> 00:48:17.209
an outside donor.

1796
00:48:18.120 --> 00:48:18.280
Uh,

1797
00:48:18.350 --> 00:48:19.320
to help as well.

1798
00:48:19.949 --> 00:48:19.959
Uh,

1799
00:48:20.050 --> 00:48:21.300
so just yesterday I was,

1800
00:48:21.399 --> 00:48:21.739
uh,

1801
00:48:22.540 --> 00:48:23.209
Along with

1802
00:48:23.649 --> 00:48:24.530
two of my colleagues,

1803
00:48:24.850 --> 00:48:25.209
uh,

1804
00:48:25.489 --> 00:48:27.459
deciding who the final winner for this year is.

1805
00:48:28.229 --> 00:48:29.550
We had 6 great applicants,

1806
00:48:29.870 --> 00:48:30.239
right,

1807
00:48:30.550 --> 00:48:31.000
but one of them,

1808
00:48:31.070 --> 00:48:31.879
for example,

1809
00:48:32.600 --> 00:48:34.790
currently is working on urban farming

1810
00:48:35.030 --> 00:48:36.050
here in the valley

1811
00:48:36.229 --> 00:48:37.689
with Saint Vincent de Paul

1812
00:48:37.989 --> 00:48:39.290
and all these sorts of things.

1813
00:48:40.590 --> 00:48:41.370
Do great work,

1814
00:48:42.070 --> 00:48:42.429
right,

1815
00:48:42.629 --> 00:48:42.989
um.

1816
00:48:44.080 --> 00:48:44.679
Here's the thing,

1817
00:48:45.030 --> 00:48:45.479
if

1818
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:47.449
she hadn't stayed in the valley,

1819
00:48:48.979 --> 00:48:50.610
Perhaps because of Barrett or something like that,

1820
00:48:50.649 --> 00:48:51.469
and had gone off

1821
00:48:51.969 --> 00:48:52.889
to California,

1822
00:48:53.290 --> 00:48:54.610
then they're benefiting from that.

1823
00:48:55.540 --> 00:48:55.550
Right.

1824
00:48:56.419 --> 00:48:56.959
Um,

1825
00:48:57.500 --> 00:48:57.820
so,

1826
00:48:59.020 --> 00:49:00.040
there's the perceptible

1827
00:49:00.739 --> 00:49:01.219
stuff,

1828
00:49:01.479 --> 00:49:01.590
um,

1829
00:49:02.370 --> 00:49:02.649
you know,

1830
00:49:03.179 --> 00:49:04.500
I think the argument could be made that,

1831
00:49:04.580 --> 00:49:04.929
you know,

1832
00:49:05.340 --> 00:49:05.979
having Bart.

1833
00:49:06.750 --> 00:49:06.760
He

1834
00:49:07.610 --> 00:49:09.300
helps radically the

1835
00:49:12.850 --> 00:49:13.909
What's the word I wanna use.

1836
00:49:15.090 --> 00:49:17.209
The standing of ASU.

1837
00:49:18.030 --> 00:49:18.699
Just as

1838
00:49:19.550 --> 00:49:20.520
As an educational unit.

1839
00:49:21.340 --> 00:49:21.620
Uh,

1840
00:49:21.820 --> 00:49:23.679
but then there's all those little trickle-out things.

1841
00:49:24.469 --> 00:49:24.629
Right,

1842
00:49:24.709 --> 00:49:26.389
that some of them are immeasurable,

1843
00:49:26.510 --> 00:49:28.209
some of them are not quantifiable,

1844
00:49:28.790 --> 00:49:30.929
but are the sorts of things that you hear

1845
00:49:31.389 --> 00:49:34.429
on a day to day basis when you're talking with students about what they're doing,

1846
00:49:34.550 --> 00:49:35.080
when you're

1847
00:49:35.310 --> 00:49:38.489
working with them on thesess and stuff like that.

1848
00:49:40.260 --> 00:49:41.949
Another simple example is um

1849
00:49:42.929 --> 00:49:44.320
I can't remember what it's called again,

1850
00:49:44.649 --> 00:49:46.300
but the Tuesdays when they bring

1851
00:49:46.540 --> 00:49:47.419
students in

1852
00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:48.620
from er

1853
00:49:49.370 --> 00:49:50.169
Middle schools.

1854
00:49:51.229 --> 00:49:51.659
And,

1855
00:49:51.669 --> 00:49:52.030
um,

1856
00:49:52.879 --> 00:49:53.679
In Phoenix

1857
00:49:53.879 --> 00:49:55.100
to experience

1858
00:49:55.679 --> 00:49:56.360
university.

1859
00:49:56.560 --> 00:49:57.699
Many of these kids

1860
00:49:57.919 --> 00:50:00.590
would never have been told that they could go to university or whatever,

1861
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:02.070
but to experience and then for the,

1862
00:50:02.149 --> 00:50:03.000
oh it's talent match,

1863
00:50:03.080 --> 00:50:03.679
that's what it's called.

1864
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:04.540
There we go,

1865
00:50:05.199 --> 00:50:06.590
and then have the students,

1866
00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:06.909
you know,

1867
00:50:07.050 --> 00:50:08.939
teach the kids some skill or

1868
00:50:09.300 --> 00:50:11.750
play music or soccer or something like that.

1869
00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:13.780
And so that's positive mentoring and whatever.

1870
00:50:14.360 --> 00:50:14.649
And

1871
00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:15.820
if that inspires.

1872
00:50:16.889 --> 00:50:18.389
5% of those

1873
00:50:18.610 --> 00:50:19.550
kids to go,

1874
00:50:19.649 --> 00:50:20.729
I can go to college,

1875
00:50:20.810 --> 00:50:22.129
I want to go to college.

1876
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:23.169
Uh,

1877
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:25.120
that's something good for Arizona.

1878
00:50:25.979 --> 00:50:26.100
So,

1879
00:50:26.110 --> 00:50:26.229
I mean,

1880
00:50:26.270 --> 00:50:28.620
there are all these little things that I don't think people

1881
00:50:29.469 --> 00:50:31.280
Possibly know that Barrett does.

1882
00:50:31.989 --> 00:50:32.659
And certainly,

1883
00:50:32.830 --> 00:50:32.989
you know,

1884
00:50:33.229 --> 00:50:35.669
state legislature probably has no clue,

1885
00:50:36.070 --> 00:50:37.600
but I think it adds value to the community,

1886
00:50:37.669 --> 00:50:38.510
not only in Tempe,

1887
00:50:38.540 --> 00:50:39.469
but I think in Arizona.

1888
00:50:41.790 --> 00:50:42.070
Right,

1889
00:50:42.229 --> 00:50:43.969
so what do you see in Barrett's future?

1890
00:50:49.110 --> 00:50:49.760
Hoverboards,

1891
00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:52.110
they promised us hoverboards,

1892
00:50:52.120 --> 00:50:52.899
um

1893
00:50:54.229 --> 00:50:54.239
ah.

1894
00:50:54.939 --> 00:50:55.340
I don't know,

1895
00:50:55.419 --> 00:50:55.699
I'm not,

1896
00:50:55.820 --> 00:50:55.979
I'm,

1897
00:50:56.050 --> 00:50:58.080
I'm remarkably bad at predicting the future.

1898
00:50:58.909 --> 00:50:59.550
Um

1899
00:51:00.979 --> 00:51:01.409
I think,

1900
00:51:01.469 --> 00:51:03.100
I think we're going to expand,

1901
00:51:03.459 --> 00:51:03.659
uh,

1902
00:51:04.179 --> 00:51:04.500
but

1903
00:51:05.179 --> 00:51:06.159
Not here in Tempe.

1904
00:51:06.419 --> 00:51:08.520
I think it's going to be downtown

1905
00:51:09.659 --> 00:51:10.229
Poly,

1906
00:51:10.550 --> 00:51:11.080
for example,

1907
00:51:11.750 --> 00:51:12.219
West.

1908
00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:13.239
Uh,

1909
00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:14.979
where we literally have more space.

1910
00:51:15.929 --> 00:51:16.350
Although

1911
00:51:16.489 --> 00:51:17.530
downtown is a bit of an issue,

1912
00:51:17.610 --> 00:51:17.810
but.

1913
00:51:18.449 --> 00:51:19.100
Um,

1914
00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:22.399
I,

1915
00:51:22.479 --> 00:51:23.209
I honestly,

1916
00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:24.320
I,

1917
00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:26.560
I honestly don't know.

1918
00:51:27.550 --> 00:51:28.020
Um,

1919
00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:29.159
I think one of the things that's going to

1920
00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:31.260
be interesting is certainly over the next decade,

1921
00:51:31.959 --> 00:51:34.120
given what's happening technologically and given the

1922
00:51:34.120 --> 00:51:36.070
fact that the students are more sort of

1923
00:51:37.020 --> 00:51:38.129
Screen-based,

1924
00:51:38.590 --> 00:51:39.209
um.

1925
00:51:40.219 --> 00:51:41.120
I think

1926
00:51:41.260 --> 00:51:43.580
there may very well be some tweaks that have to be made

1927
00:51:43.580 --> 00:51:47.020
to what happens in the classroom and all these sorts of things.

1928
00:51:47.969 --> 00:51:48.389
Uh.

1929
00:51:49.580 --> 00:51:51.600
What they may look like I have no clue.

1930
00:51:52.929 --> 00:51:53.699
Um,

1931
00:51:55.370 --> 00:51:56.010
I think.

1932
00:51:58.870 --> 00:52:00.689
Given what we're doing at the moment,

1933
00:52:01.270 --> 00:52:02.810
encouraging students to

1934
00:52:03.139 --> 00:52:04.429
travel in some form or function,

1935
00:52:04.540 --> 00:52:05.149
so we've got,

1936
00:52:05.870 --> 00:52:06.149
you know,

1937
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:07.850
the standard studies abroad,

1938
00:52:08.030 --> 00:52:08.149
you know,

1939
00:52:08.229 --> 00:52:08.899
the summer,

1940
00:52:08.909 --> 00:52:10.320
4 or 5 weeks or whatever,

1941
00:52:10.469 --> 00:52:11.149
we've got

1942
00:52:11.510 --> 00:52:13.590
global intensive experiences which are

1943
00:52:13.870 --> 00:52:15.149
usually about 10 days,

1944
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:15.350
so.

1945
00:52:16.209 --> 00:52:16.679
So in May,

1946
00:52:16.689 --> 00:52:17.610
I'm going to Iceland,

1947
00:52:17.649 --> 00:52:18.209
for example.

1948
00:52:18.919 --> 00:52:19.629
Um

1949
00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:21.179
And.

1950
00:52:22.080 --> 00:52:22.800
We've also got.

1951
00:52:23.939 --> 00:52:24.520
Uh,

1952
00:52:24.620 --> 00:52:25.260
through a donor,

1953
00:52:25.340 --> 00:52:28.080
we've got travel opportunities here,

1954
00:52:28.860 --> 00:52:29.300
uh,

1955
00:52:29.860 --> 00:52:30.689
within the states,

1956
00:52:31.060 --> 00:52:31.620
which are cheaper,

1957
00:52:31.659 --> 00:52:34.419
obviously and less time commitment and all that sort of stuff.

1958
00:52:35.189 --> 00:52:35.709
Um,

1959
00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:37.800
Given,

1960
00:52:38.439 --> 00:52:40.639
I think definitely in the future is an expansion

1961
00:52:41.080 --> 00:52:43.100
for the continued expansion because I think

1962
00:52:43.399 --> 00:52:43.719
all of us,

1963
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:48.739
certainly all the faculty and the administration and Dean Jains and Dean Foote.

1964
00:52:51.340 --> 00:52:53.080
Do realize the value of travel.

1965
00:52:53.750 --> 00:52:53.760
Um,

1966
00:52:53.790 --> 00:52:55.100
and those sorts of experiences that we had

1967
00:52:55.100 --> 00:52:56.669
started talking about at the very beginning,

1968
00:52:56.790 --> 00:52:57.120
right?

1969
00:52:57.629 --> 00:52:57.949
Um,

1970
00:52:58.149 --> 00:53:00.070
so I can see that expanding and becoming a thing.

1971
00:53:00.110 --> 00:53:00.199
Now,

1972
00:53:00.229 --> 00:53:01.379
whether it reaches the sort of,

1973
00:53:01.429 --> 00:53:02.270
in a decade from now,

1974
00:53:02.389 --> 00:53:02.739
say for example,

1975
00:53:02.790 --> 00:53:03.649
if it reaches this,

1976
00:53:03.870 --> 00:53:04.550
what I would like,

1977
00:53:04.590 --> 00:53:05.110
as I said,

1978
00:53:05.429 --> 00:53:07.229
everybody's able to do it at no cost and whatever,

1979
00:53:07.310 --> 00:53:07.780
that's

1980
00:53:09.120 --> 00:53:10.159
We'd have to say.

1981
00:53:11.030 --> 00:53:12.020
But uh.

1982
00:53:13.020 --> 00:53:13.439
Yeah,

1983
00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:14.290
I mean,

1984
00:53:15.300 --> 00:53:15.510
That's,

1985
00:53:15.590 --> 00:53:18.110
that's a tougher question than you than you can possibly think it is.

1986
00:53:19.139 --> 00:53:20.639
That's what I was going to say to you.

1987
00:53:22.919 --> 00:53:25.629
So do you have any other additional comments you'd like to

1988
00:53:25.629 --> 00:53:28.570
make or short stories you'd like to share or anything?

1989
00:53:31.020 --> 00:53:31.760
Oh,

1990
00:53:31.770 --> 00:53:31.939
boy,

1991
00:53:31.979 --> 00:53:32.449
oh boy,

1992
00:53:32.500 --> 00:53:32.939
oh boy,

1993
00:53:33.020 --> 00:53:33.659
oh boy.

1994
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:35.070
Um.

1995
00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:39.040
I don't know,

1996
00:53:39.149 --> 00:53:39.360
I mean,

1997
00:53:39.719 --> 00:53:41.260
the the the comment would be more um.

1998
00:53:43.780 --> 00:53:46.939
The 2nd or 3rd longest serving faculty member,

1999
00:53:47.429 --> 00:53:47.870
so.

2000
00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:49.439
Uh,

2001
00:53:49.560 --> 00:53:52.439
Mike Stanford left for law school and law practice for a while.

2002
00:53:52.520 --> 00:53:54.159
So whether we count his time or not,

2003
00:53:54.280 --> 00:53:54.520
right,

2004
00:53:54.679 --> 00:53:54.949
so,

2005
00:53:55.280 --> 00:53:55.699
but it,

2006
00:53:55.850 --> 00:53:56.120
you know,

2007
00:53:56.370 --> 00:53:57.620
Karen ruined myself,

2008
00:53:58.030 --> 00:53:58.050
uh,

2009
00:53:58.520 --> 00:54:00.770
and Mike Stanford are the top 3 faculty members.

2010
00:54:01.120 --> 00:54:02.169
And when we started.

2011
00:54:03.739 --> 00:54:04.870
There are 9 of us.

2012
00:54:06.179 --> 00:54:08.459
And we were over in Irish Hall and it was this,

2013
00:54:08.780 --> 00:54:09.550
it was a great thing,

2014
00:54:09.770 --> 00:54:10.379
don't get me wrong.

2015
00:54:11.189 --> 00:54:11.800
Um,

2016
00:54:12.229 --> 00:54:12.689
and,

2017
00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:13.030
you know,

2018
00:54:13.270 --> 00:54:15.530
what Ted Humphrey had put together was just fantastic.

2019
00:54:17.219 --> 00:54:17.790
Um.

2020
00:54:19.139 --> 00:54:20.060
Nobody would have

2021
00:54:20.340 --> 00:54:22.320
told me in my wildest dreams that,

2022
00:54:22.659 --> 00:54:22.820
you know,

2023
00:54:22.939 --> 00:54:24.080
18 years later,

2024
00:54:24.459 --> 00:54:26.060
we'd have 40+ faculty.

2025
00:54:27.520 --> 00:54:28.550
We'd have,

2026
00:54:28.750 --> 00:54:29.219
you know,

2027
00:54:29.600 --> 00:54:31.360
the number of students that we have.

2028
00:54:32.389 --> 00:54:32.600
We

2029
00:54:33.760 --> 00:54:34.189
You know,

2030
00:54:34.439 --> 00:54:35.500
have a place like,

2031
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:35.959
you know,

2032
00:54:36.280 --> 00:54:37.560
the current building here.

2033
00:54:39.100 --> 00:54:40.760
I would have probably called him insane.

2034
00:54:41.290 --> 00:54:41.449
You know,

2035
00:54:41.530 --> 00:54:41.889
it was just like,

2036
00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:42.129
nah,

2037
00:54:42.429 --> 00:54:43.550
there's no way that could happen.

2038
00:54:44.550 --> 00:54:45.169
Um

2039
00:54:46.050 --> 00:54:46.250
You know,

2040
00:54:46.330 --> 00:54:47.070
and I think

2041
00:54:48.570 --> 00:54:50.129
Between Ted Humphrey and Mark Jacobs,

2042
00:54:50.169 --> 00:54:50.989
I think they've done

2043
00:54:51.330 --> 00:54:52.389
amazing work to

2044
00:54:52.860 --> 00:54:53.959
to foster us through that.

2045
00:54:55.250 --> 00:54:55.409
I mean,

2046
00:54:55.459 --> 00:54:55.649
there's,

2047
00:54:55.699 --> 00:54:55.899
you know,

2048
00:54:56.330 --> 00:54:56.840
there's always

2049
00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:58.969
with any kind of kind of expansion,

2050
00:54:59.020 --> 00:54:59.320
there's,

2051
00:54:59.340 --> 00:54:59.520
you know,

2052
00:54:59.780 --> 00:55:03.169
moments of pressure and tension and how do we maintain this,

2053
00:55:03.179 --> 00:55:04.040
and how do we do that,

2054
00:55:04.060 --> 00:55:05.139
and all that sort of stuff.

2055
00:55:06.739 --> 00:55:08.919
So being a part of that roller coaster ride

2056
00:55:09.540 --> 00:55:10.280
has been kind of

2057
00:55:10.939 --> 00:55:11.340
fun,

2058
00:55:11.689 --> 00:55:12.659
totally unpredicted.

2059
00:55:13.669 --> 00:55:13.969
Right,

2060
00:55:14.149 --> 00:55:14.659
uh,

2061
00:55:14.790 --> 00:55:15.429
but fun.

2062
00:55:16.070 --> 00:55:16.389
You know,

2063
00:55:16.550 --> 00:55:17.189
and

2064
00:55:17.860 --> 00:55:18.350
Um.

2065
00:55:20.209 --> 00:55:20.949
You know that's.

2066
00:55:24.040 --> 00:55:25.399
That's basically all I want to say about that.

2067
00:55:26.860 --> 00:55:27.449
Um,

2068
00:55:27.699 --> 00:55:29.899
I don't think I have any cute story to to to tell.

2069
00:55:30.649 --> 00:55:31.010
You know,

2070
00:55:31.330 --> 00:55:32.310
which is probably good.

2071
00:55:32.810 --> 00:55:33.620
Um,

2072
00:55:34.010 --> 00:55:34.370
it's just,

2073
00:55:34.449 --> 00:55:35.870
it's just been an interesting ride,

2074
00:55:36.409 --> 00:55:37.550
a very interesting ride.

2075
00:55:37.689 --> 00:55:38.169
Um.

2076
00:55:42.550 --> 00:55:42.899
Yeah,

2077
00:55:43.189 --> 00:55:44.429
we'll see what the next decade holds.

2078
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:46.169
All right.

2079
00:55:46.370 --> 00:55:46.479
Well,

2080
00:55:46.570 --> 00:55:48.459
thank you so much for your participation.

2081
00:55:48.570 --> 00:55:50.439
If you have any more thoughts to share later,

2082
00:55:50.610 --> 00:55:51.850
please feel free to reach out.

2083
00:55:52.129 --> 00:55:54.199
If you have any questions about this interview for the,

2084
00:55:54.370 --> 00:55:57.050
or the 30th anniversary Oral History Project,

2085
00:55:57.370 --> 00:55:59.290
please contact Vice Dean Nicola Food.

2086
00:56:00.090 --> 00:56:00.489
All right.