Generally good.
Well then so let's say I have 40 things that
I'm thinking about and 36 of them are going well and
2 of them I'm struggling with.
One is a total disaster and one is I wish I,
you know,
had never met that person.
And so
other than that,
you're
so far
you're drinking tea,
right?
So that means you're relaxing.
Is that English breakfast tea?
Yes,
which is really good.
That and Earl Grey are my two favorite teas.
That's my boyfriend's favorite.
Yeah,
well,
Earl Grey has the flowers in it,
so
yeah,
it has an aromatic,
uh,
set of flowers that give it a distinctive
flavor.
Yeah,
to me it doesn't have enough kick as English breakfast.
English breakfast tea is designed to move your body forward.
Exactly.
Are you good,
Chris?
Yeah,
I'm Energy drinks have more caffeine than tea.
I can never stand energy drink.
They just like.
Tea.
I like tea.
I just count down energy drinks.
Are we ready to head?
OK.
Hi.
So I'm Emma Vandenni.
This is Joshua Pardey and Primro Zenga
interviewing President Michael Crowe on February 1st at
8:30 a.m. in the Fulton Foundation room.
Um,
this interview is part of the Barrett Oral History Project,
and our goal is to preserve a record of Barrett's history in honor
of Barrett's 30th anniversary as the oldest honor college in the nation.
So thank you so much for sitting down and taking some time to answer our questions.
We have 6 questions prepared and we're looking forward to your in-depth answer
answers.
Well,
let me,
let me say something about honors colleges.
So this is something that,
that people don't realize.
And so,
you know,
Barrett,
uh,
the honors college at ASU is a fantastic,
fantastic institution.
It has.
Uh,
created a teaching,
learning,
and discovery environment that's equal to any environment that's out there.
But
what people don't realize,
like where I came from,
Columbia University
has at the heart of Columbia University a thing called Columbia College.
Columbia College is the entity that's then
connected to Harvard College at Harvard University,
Yale College at Yale University,
and so
people don't realize that those are honors colleges.
They're the same model but at a different
kind of historical institution.
And so,
so,
so what I mean by that is that,
uh,
Barrett Honors College,
Columbia College,
Harvard College,
Yale College,
uh,
they are the same kind of place and I'm what I'm very proud of in our case is our
level of um
diversity,
the number of intellectual pursuits that our students can take,
the number of double and triple majors.
Uh,
at
some of those honors colleges,
uh,
the Ivy League ones in particular,
uh,
you only have a handful of majors that you can pursue.
Here our students can take hundreds of different options and mixing and matching,
and not just on this campus,
right.
I know I'm from the downtown campus and Joshua,
he takes most of his classes here,
but he's,
uh,
lives around the West campus area,
right?
So I mean I just wanted to get that out there that
people don't realize that what we've done here in the last 30 years
is built a,
uh,
a modern.
Uh,
hyper,
uh,
intellectually broad,
uh,
honors college on the same fundamental basis as
the idea of Harvard College or Columbia College,
uh,
but on a much broader spectrum with a very diverse student body,
uh,
and at a very large scale.
Yeah,
um,
going
back,
uh,
a little bit,
I guess this,
this kind of relates to your,
your point that you just made,
um,
I just want to kind of get your own opinion like why do you think,
what do you think,
like,
uh,
why do you think an honors college is important for students?
Like I know you,
so,
so I have a different view about honors colleges.
So,
so,
so honors colleges to me are a highly
designed learning environment
for students with a particular approach to learning.
So I'm not a big believer that somehow honors colleges are something in which
medal,
that is they like Olympic medal high school students
are coming in to get further Olympic medals in college.
It's a place where
a kid who's interested in
operatic,
uh,
um,
singing can also double major in biomedical engineering
and pick up Arabic as a side language because
that's the way they learn.
Now,
I was one of those kids.
I wanted to major in 5 different subjects simultaneously,
so I wanted to be,
I wanted to study political science.
I wanted to study environmental science.
I wanted to study engineering,
linguistics,
and anthropology.
And so when I showed up to the university that I went to,
I said I wanted to major in these 5 things,
and they said,
no,
little boy,
uh,
you,
you have to pick one.
And I said I can't do that.
And they said,
OK,
well then you're in distributed studies.
And they said distributive studies is for the stupid little
boys like you who can't decide what they wanna do.
And so,
so what,
what I
think our honors college is,
is a place for
highly energized,
uh,
individuals on
two dimensions.
One dimension is the.
You know,
the English major who is already a poet who wants
to devote every ounce of their energy to their creative expression
and wants to be overwhelmed with all of the complexity of English poetry.
Uh,
the other is the student,
and it could be true in physics or chemistry or engineering or whatever,
and the other is this person.
Who wants to be completely immersed
in the totality of learning
without distraction,
without
constraint,
and that's to me what an honors college is all about,
and that's what that's what Barrett is about.
Now,
the same
equally capable kid
may say,
you know,
I just want to study chemical engineering and work at my dad's company.
And fine.
Or you know what I really wanna do is keep playing in
my band and I wanna get a degree in business communications,
you know,
I,
I just wanna get the,
the,
the what I call the mini max.
So honors college students are what I call maxi max.
So the maximum amount of the maximum effort,
and then a lot of people,
and it is rational,
by the way,
to be mini max,
the minimum amount of the maximum effort.
And so,
and so we need an environment for the maximaxes.
And so Barrett is a place where Maxi Maxes go.
I love that vocabulary word.
So now we're gonna jump a little bit more into the history.
Um,
so you became president in 2002,
before you were born.
Yes.
Well,
we were one or two,
and it seems that one of your priorities was
heavily developing and investing in the honors college and,
um,
transforming it into
what is now called the gold standard of honors
colleges and a residential college which didn't exist before.
Uh,
with its own
facilities and its own,
you know,
connections in new ways.
So those are decisions that we made.
Yes,
true.
So going a little bit more into that,
could you share more about the development of the Baird Honor College and some
specific initiatives that helped create it?
So,
its creation,
uh,
back in the,
uh,
80s,
uh,
was really derivative of the emergence of ASU as a real university.
So
ASU didn't become a
comprehensive
opportunity to build a university.
It didn't become a university even as a starting position.
Until 1960,
didn't even begin the process of becoming a research university until 1980,
and President Nelson was here.
He had been the chancellor of the University of Colorado at Boulder,
and he was the person that said,
Well,
you know,
we need a place where these Maximax learners
can go,
so let's get something started.
And so 30 years in the,
in the context of university history is like a nanosecond ago.
You know,
Harvard's almost 400 years old.
Oxford and Cambridge are in the range of 1000 years old,
and
Barrett Honors College is 30 years old,
so that's a,
you know,
a nanosecond.
And so what was going on here was we were finding that there were really
large numbers of students who were
the same as the students at Harvard College,
the same as the students at Stanford.
Uh,
uh,
but generally not from as many from ultra wealthy families.
And so what was being created here was an opportunity to create that kind of college
in Arizona.
So
it was the brilliance of,
of,
uh,
the team at the time to launch this fantastic idea
of an honors college which then has evolved at.
You know,
10 times the normal speed of an academic enterprise
because they don't evolve very quickly.
We,
so we've done 300 years of evolution in 30 years
and have ended up,
as you have already suggested,
as the,
the best of the best of the best.
Uh,
after you became president in 2002,
1 of your first high profile outside hires was Dean Jacobs,
who is now one of the
longest serving deans here at ASU.
Probably in the history of the institution also,
so,
uh,
he's,
he came from one of the top liberal arts colleges in Swarthmore College,
Swarthmore College in Pennsylvania.
Uh,
so could you mind sharing how hiring him fit into your plans for both ASU and Barrett?
So what we were looking for with Barrett was I wanted to find a person where she or he.
Uh,
could,
uh,
come from one of these honors colleges,
public or private.
I think I probably preferred private,
uh,
to just get every ounce of,
of the ideas out of that institution.
So Mark,
uh,
was a chaired professor.
He was the Centennial Professor of biology at Swarthmore College.
He was the associate
provost at Swarthmore College.
We interviewed him and he knew exactly what we were trying to do.
How do you build a world-class honors college like Swarthmore,
which we have.
But inside a university with 400 majors.
400 degree pathways.
Nothing like that could ever be done.
I used to be a trustee of a college like Swarthmore called Bowdoin College
in Brunswick,
Maine,
and,
um,
same thing.
So there they had
a few dozen majors.
Uh,
they had a few 100 students in the freshman class.
Uh,
and so,
uh,
what Mark was really interested in,
and this is why we focused on him,
and he's done a fantastic job as the dean,
uh,
it was how do we build the super,
super,
super Swarthmore.
The super,
super,
super Williams,
Amherst,
Bowden,
uh,
Oberlin,
where my wife went to college,
uh,
Claremont,
Pomona,
uh,
Grinnell,
um,
whatever the school happens to be.
How do we build one of those inside ASU
and then take advantage of the entirety of the university,
and Mark wanted to do that
and has done that.
One of my questions that um is always my
favorite one to ask in these types of interviews,
what is one of your best memories or stories
that you have from the history of Barrett?
Well,
I've had a lot of Barrett students in my classes that I teach.
What classes do you teach?
I,
I the most,
the most common class that I teach is a class called Science and Technology
and Public Affairs,
which is a science and technology policy class which
I'm teaching fits your desires that you wanted.
Well anyway,
so,
so it does.
And so,
so exactly.
And so,
uh,
like the,
the students that are in there this semester or last year or the year before.
So what I find in the Barrett students is this,
um.
Unbridled willingness to engage in
intellectual discourse
at the highest level.
In fact,
within this university community,
including in that class,
which is 3/4 graduate students,
they are unequivocally and always the most courageous,
always the ones trying to learn across the broadest spectrum of learning,
uh,
always double majors,
triple majors,
uh,
multilingual.
Uh,
multi-functional,
you know,
uh,
piano player,
um,
piano concert piano,
uh,
master,
uh,
drum major,
you know,
mashed in with economics and philosophy,
and I'm like,
and now we got something to talk about.
And so,
so what I find in the course and the way that it works is that they are always.
The ones driving the hardest and so
my
remembrance of the honors college is my engagement with honors
students.
Now I've also been on honors,
um,
uh,
thesis committees,
uh,
and reviewers.
And so one of my students who took my class,
who then did an honors thesis,
who then
finished her PhD in like 6 months
here,
uh,
who's now at Stanford Law School on a full ride scholarship,
I'm just like,
like,
dude,
I mean.
Uh,
I could only wish
that I had half of your ability.
Uh,
and so I've also met people,
uh,
coming through the honors college who are unparalleled.
Uh,
so there was an honors college graduate from,
I think,
the early 2000s named Matthew Desmond.
I don't know if you guys track him.
So he's a local kid from Arizona.
So,
uh,
he,
um.
Grew up near Winslow,
Arizona,
so he now is a full professor at Princeton in an endowed chair.
I think he's like 35 years old,
but last year he won
the Pulitzer Prize
and a MacArthur Genius award.
I'm like,
yeah,
that's what Barrett produces,
absolutely.
Do you have a favorite like thesis project that you oversaw?
Well,
I mean,
um,
The,
the
most exciting projects that I've been involved with,
with
Barrett is when the,
so when I was at Columbia,
we could give A pluses.
And so I gave A pluses to uh students that taught me.
So the condition to get an A plus was,
did you teach me?
Did I learn from you as a student?
If I learned from you as a student,
I don't even care how you did on a test.
I gave you an A plus.
I don't care about your paper.
If I learned from you and you're that smart,
I gave you an A+.
And so I,
I've had many A+ experiences with Barrett students where they're teaching me,
where they're bringing in some angle,
some perspective,
some,
some way of thinking.
And so I,
I graduated from,
I,
I graduated from college,
uh,
42 years ago.
Uh,
last year was the year that I learned the most,
so I've been in college for 42 years.
And so there were Barrett students last year that.
Taught me,
even though I've been in college for 42 years,
so some 19-year-old kid
with a with a 1000 horsepower brain
tied into the internet,
uh,
you know,
dreaming and imagining,
so the most powerful human expression is imagination.
So if you match that intellect level with imagination
in a young person who's fearless about the future,
they're going to teach an old person like me
all kinds of things.
And so my experiences with,
with uh.
Barrett's students are
about learning from them.
Going back to the idea that the Barrett Honors
College is a unique learning environment for students,
I understand that you attended attended 17
different schools before you graduated high school,
so you experienced the ones I stayed at longer than 2 weeks.
Oh.
Through those,
uh,
experiences you found many different ways of approaching
education.
So how have your unique experiences in grade school
helped you form the gold standard of honors colleges?
Well,
the first thing that happened when you moved
around from town to town in working class communities
like I did was that you first had to defend yourself because you're gonna get beat up.
Uh,
and so my hands are covered with the scars of other little boys' teeth,
uh,
and so,
uh,
battling in every school imaginable.
So that's learning also.
And then there's adjusting to people that are biased and bigoted,
uh,
and,
uh,
don't like people that look like me or wear the clothes
that I wore or spoke with the accent that I have.
I have an accent,
and,
and my accent wasn't as popular in Florida
or Tennessee or Texas,
uh,
or Maryland or other places that we lived,
Missouri,
uh,
and so,
so you learn from that also.
So learning is not just about your academic.
Ability.
So the other thing that I learned in those 17 schools and moving around is the
unbelievably uh
and overly rigid educational models that
force people to learn in,
um,
mechanistic ways.
And so the French philosopher,
uh,
writer,
uh,
Foucault,
you know,
basically says if you want to change
education,
then look at the way the seats are nailed to the floor
in a classroom.
Because then that creates the rigidity of a learning environment.
So what I learned growing up was
the rigidity of these environments that I was going through.
So I'd go from one school,
uh,
in one grade,
I'd be like in the 4th grade,
I was in,
um,
School in uh,
in the 3rd grade,
I was in school in California.
Two different schools and then in the 4th grade
I went to 3 schools in metropolitan Chicago,
uh,
and so what I found in all of those environments,
so that's 5 schools in those 2 years,
and what I found in those 2 years was then that the teachers were
relentless bureaucrats,
uh,
built on a rigid model of instruction with no,
no tolerance for variability whatsoever.
Now I'm only in the 4th grade,
so I'm 9 years old,
but I can already tell at 9 years old that there's something wrong.
I don't know what it is,
but I do know that,
you know,
they would,
they would say,
well,
you don't know this,
what's wrong with you?
You don't know this.
What's wrong with you?
So I have this joke that I,
that I developed over time that I know nothing about the comma
or the numeral 8
because somewhere along the way,
I use that as an example,
it's not true.
I learned about commas later when I was in college.
And so,
but,
but somewhere along the way when I was
learning to write and learning to express myself,
because I was moving back and forth between all of these teachers,
because they could only teach in their rigid way,
block by block by block by block by block,
there was no tolerance for anything different and then what that taught me was,
and I think that this is really important,
what that taught me was that now imagine there's any disruption at your home.
Imagine there's any disruption in your family life
and there's any change.
My mother died along the way when I was 8 years,
9 years old,
uh,
and so,
and so what that means is,
and I,
you know,
I got,
you know,
my family at least had money to buy food and
pay rent and think of all the families that don't.
How are you gonna learn then in
the context of a rigid regimented bureaucratic teacher
who has little tolerance for any variability in the students
when in fact it is in fact the variability between and among the students
that empowers their learning
and so what we,
what we're living in now is in fact a strange industrialized model.
In fact,
I
began in all these schools that I went to to think of it as nothing but a factory.
And so then what would happen from time to time,
I would occasionally meet a teacher and they would say,
oh.
I see
you're not like the rest of us here,
and so they would let me do my own thing.
So when I went to one school in the 10th grade,
I moved around a lot in the 10th grade because my dad had gotten out of the Navy,
didn't have a job.
We were living in Missouri,
living in Maryland,
living in Illinois,
moving all over the place,
trying to make things happen.
And so the one biology teacher who was a genius teacher,
he said,
Oh,
Michael.
I'm gonna give you some mice.
And you're gonna just do some experiments.
I want you to figure out how to design an experiment and do some experiments on mice.
So I started reading everything and
what was,
you know,
and so I did these experiments about
dark
and light and mice and eating and weight gain and other stuff.
I didn't know what,
so I started designing an experiment,
doing an experiment,
and I was learning biology and learning behavior,
learning,
uh,
organisms and all this other kind of stuff,
and it was fantastic.
And so
what I found,
you know,
not to the heart of your question,
but tangentially to your question.
What I found was that,
uh,
moving around taught me
how
fundamentally flawed the overall educational process really is.
And then that gave me high tolerance for being willing to be creative,
to be a part of doing new things.
You might notice that we have,
you know,
30 transdisciplinary schools at ASU.
We have,
we have anti-disciplinary schools at ASU.
We have,
uh,
there were,
there was a young woman in Barrett that I met a few years ago.
Who had been admitted to Juilliard,
you know,
supposedly the most,
uh,
um,
uh,
exclusive music school in the country,
but she didn't want to go to Juilliard because
they wouldn't let her also be a biochemistry major.
Well,
here you can be,
you know,
you wanna be a biochemistry major while you study music?
OK,
no problem.
And so that's what I would have preferred when I showed up to college.
That's what I would prefer today if I was your age and just coming to college.
I would walk up to the person
and I wouldn't say 5 majors.
I would say these are the 10 things I want to try to learn while I'm here.
Please customize for me a pathway through this institution
where I can come out with this understanding,
or I would say all I want to do.
Is I want to read books.
And they would say,
OK,
here's those books.
And then when you're done reading those books,
now you're a master learner.
So
we're still not there,
but we're closer at ASU than most places.
Yeah,
I mean,
I think the human event is a really good example.
I like discussing different books and,
um,
just having these like discussions about the human psyche and how it's evolved.
So we have one last question for you,
um,
before we wrap up.
Um,
where do you see Barrett in the larger vision
of ASU because we know that you oversee ASU,
but specifically with Barrett,
like what are your hopes for the future of continued growth at Barrett?
So one thing I'm hoping for with Barris Barrett is enhanced diversity.
Uh,
more,
uh,
socioeconomic diversity,
more ethnic diversity.
It's already more diverse than most honors colleges,
including the Columbia's and the,
and the Harvard's and so forth,
but we need more diversity.
Uh,
I'm looking for it to be a place where,
uh,
this will sound strange,
and I'm looking at the vice dean over there,
uh,
um.
Like triple majors are common.
Common
Uh,
and so,
and so the notion of then thinking through,
now we just did an article on a bunch of triple majors here just the other day,
and
one of them I happen to know,
and I ran into him last night walking to the,
the,
the defeat of the University of Arizona game,
uh,
and
yes,
right,
and so,
and so I was talking to him and,
and,
and he was kind of interesting and so,
you know,
he just said that it's all about,
you know,
planning and discipline and
You know,
not thinking about summers off,
and
you know,
I,
I'm like summers off.
I don't even know what that like when I went to college at age 17,
I,
I never went home to live again.
What did you do?
I had to find jobs.
I had to find ways to advance.
I had to,
you know,
I,
I was like,
you know,
I took my trunk out of my dad's station wagon and that was it and then move on.
And so,
and so I'm not saying that that's what every student should do,
but
when you go to college,
you should go to college.
You should take the 3 or 4 or 5 years that you're gonna be in college and.
Get your 3 majors or your,
your,
your bachelor's and your master's,
you know,
all at the same time.
And so what I'm
hopeful that Barrett can demonstrate is
what would be the highest order master learner that human beings could produce
and can Barrett produce those.
That's a daring question.
I
love that.
Yes,
I'm looking at the vice dean over there and
sending her signals.
I know that's really encouraging for me too
because I know I'm on the downtown campus.
I'm a journalism student,
but um,
I come down here all the time.
I'm a part of an a cappella group.
I'm trying to do music as a minor and Spanish as a minor,
um.
And so for me it's just really well you're doing it,
so you're,
you're getting it going.
So,
so that's what I'm talking about is exactly what you're doing.
So
you're doing journalism,
you're on multiple campuses,
so we've built these bus systems and light
rail systems and shuttle that's what I mean.
So no,
but we did all of that and so most
places would say in most universities have multiple campuses,
you can't go between the campuses.
Most universities have different leadership on every campus and
then they fight and argue with each other.
We don't how it's supposed to be.
We don't have any of that.
We have one university.
Can I ask you a question?
Uh,
you do so many things like this is university is big.
There,
there are so many things.
There's athletics.
There are so many things.
When and why do you find the time for Barrett?
Well,
time is um.
So how long does it take to come up with a brilliant idea?
A fraction of a second.
So time is a unit that's often misunderstood,
so,
so people think that time is a function of a constraint.
So time is merely a variable.
It's merely a,
a,
an,
an element of your existence.
And so if you don't,
if you master time and you understand time.
And you understand what you're doing,
it doesn't even enter your mind.
So it's not,
where do I find time?
I don't have to find time.
Time is not a variable.
The variable is,
where is your energy going,
so more valuable than time is energy.
And so,
so,
and then,
and then there's the immeasurable and the intangible,
which is creativity.
Creativity has nothing to do with time.
Nothing,
no,
the output of your creativity has to do with time.
The creativity itself has nothing to do with time.
Creativity can be instantaneous.
In fact,
most often is.
Creativity is usually at its highest possible level
at the exact moment where you're confronted with either opportunity,
pressure,
threat.
So the fastest and most creative person is a person attempting to avoid a threat.
Attempting to avoid some kind of circumstance,
the most creative surgeon
is a surgeon confronted with something they haven't seen before,
and then in that instant of surgery,
they devise a new suture technique.
They devise a new way to approach a failed heart.
A radiologist who's looking at some kind of imagery of cancer,
if they're,
you know,
they're not a robot,
if,
if we just wanted to judge cancer
with robots,
we could do that,
and we will.
But at the top of the robots,
the artificial intelligence systems that will be studying the images
for cancer will be an intuitively driven.
Hypothesis oriented,
calculating risk taker
called a human.
That a computer can never be.
So now imagine the radiologists of the
future backed up by 25 supercomputer artificial
intelligence systems who now is able to then
look at a scan of a person's kidney
and tell you instantly not only if they have cancer,
where they have cancer,
where it's moved,
what kind of cancer it is,
where it's going,
and what it's likely to do.
That is creativity.
All of that occurs within an instant.
Then that creativity becomes,
becomes cumulative.
So the
the creative expression of one person then becomes the
baseline condition for another person.
So the function of learning,
by the way,
so to learn that I can learn that it's possible to think of,
I'll give you an example,
so.
Uh,
last week I was in Switzerland.
For some reason I had access to this Star Trek show on Netflix
that I don't have access to here called Star Trek Discovery.
Star Trek Discovery is the latest version,
2018 version of a whole new way of thinking about Star Trek.
So they had this theory that they're projecting,
which turns out to be scientifically possible,
which is that there are uh fungi
in the galaxy that are connected into a massive life form.
So what's the largest life form on Earth?
The great whale.
No,
fungi,
probably after that are aspen trees,
uh,
and so there are fungi that go for
thousands of square miles,
possibly cover the entire planet.
So the hypothesis in this science fiction idea created by a science fiction writer
manifested in a film,
a movie,
a multi-part miniseries called Star Trek Discovery,
was that,
well,
why don't we assume that there are fungi now in an ecosystem
not limited only to the Earth,
so you probably operate under the simplistic model
that the Earth is a closed ecosystem.
The probability that the Earth is a closed ecosystem is zero.
And so we don't know much about it yet.
So now I can imagine that like that.
The writer of that story can then take that fungi thing and now can say,
now imagine that this fungi exists across the galaxy,
and perhaps it's a mechanism for faster than speed of light transport.
That's a true example of creativity.
Yes,
now,
is faster than speed of light transport possible?
The answer is yes,
so you need to track these kinds of things.
So
physicists in Italy have been able to move light particles
faster than the speed of light on an experimental basis.
How's that possible?
No,
that's possible because they are not limited even by Einstein's theories.
So what is a theory?
So a theory is nothing but the latest explanation
for how something works.
It is the latest,
yet again,
incomplete explanation of how the world works.
You know how long it takes.
Einstein to come up with the theory of relativity according to his own biography
an hour.
And so again,
this whole notion,
so people get all distorted.
They think that work is a function of time.
Well yeah,
it amazes me because you do so many things and this university is
big and you're you're invested and involved in all aspects of it.
I'm like,
why,
where do you find time because
in itself it's varied,
it's myriad,
it does so many things
and I was just wondering.
Well,
so the other thing is that you don't have to know everything.
It's impossible,
so don't even try.
You can't control everything,
so don't try.
So what you have to do,
the smart person decides what they can control.
What they can influence and what they can affect the outcome of so.
Great interview.
Thank you.
Nice to see you.
Yes,
thank you for your participation.
If you have any more thoughts or you'd like to share any more information later on,
please contact Vice Dean Nicola Foot.
And if you have any questions about this
interview or the 30th anniversary Oral History Project,
you can contact the Vice Dean.
It was a pleasure meeting you.
OK,
nice to see you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
You just want to grab the NyQuil.
Nice to see you.
Thank you very
much.
OK,
did you guys find the sign
or am I supposed to be?
Well,
we can make some,
no,
don't worry.
I can we take a quick picture just
of yours.
Since everyone else that records me doesn't even ask for consent,
so you want to take the archive,
uh,
yeah,
I can take one.
And then Denise,
we can,
we should see what else we can do.
You want one just the interview.
No,
no,
you were also a part of the team.
OK,
look here.
All right.
Great.
All.
Thank you.
So,
you guys,
here's an idea just put in your head.
So,
you know,
you have,
uh,
you have 1013,
that's low trillions
of cells in your body,
right?
Low trillions of individual cells,
you know that the cells in the human body
are two organisms that blended together in evolutionary event
billions of years ago.
So basically human cells
are two different organisms
that existed pre-existed
that then formed into the cells that now make up your.
But you have 1014,
that is more than you have individual cells in your body.
You have individual microorganisms in your body.
More than the number of cells in the body.
I don't know,
but what are you,
since there's more of you that isn't human than there is of you that is human.
So,
so you ought to even,
you know,
think through,
you ought to think through.
I've learned more in this half an hour.
OK.
All right,
nice to see you.
OK,
yeah,
nice to see you.
What do you think university presidents are?
Like paper pushers.
You're different than all of them.
Thank you.
Uh,
anybody else?
No.
What?
Any?
OK.
I walked.
Oh,
I,
I just.
I'll be right back.
Thank you so much.
OK.
Thank you guys.
Great job
guys.
That was
that was that was fabulous.
There were so many moments where you were collecting such
incredible material you guys did a great job.
That's some real,
yeah,
and you got through all the things you wanted to ask.
You asked some interesting follow-ups.
You did really,
really well.
Well,
thanks.
I was gonna say
you did do a really nice job.
Usually,
you know,
he's got to keep on his schedule and the fact that he
stayed with you guys beyond that means he was having fun.
So
thank you.